6. Plaid Cymru Debate: A confirmatory European Union referendum

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 5:53 pm on 5 June 2019.

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Photo of Rhun ap Iorwerth Rhun ap Iorwerth Plaid Cymru 5:53, 5 June 2019

I'm pleased that you gave that information. I think all of us should be very concerned about the evidence, and there's plenty of it, that the Brexit debate is one of two things: either driving the growth of the far right or a symptom of it. And I've certainly seen some of the abuse that the Member for the Rhondda has taken, and it's disgraceful and I condemn it. And it would be good to hear others condemn that abuse rather than condemning Leanne Wood. 

It is the electorate, I believe, that should decide the outcome. And as I've mentioned a number of times here, that electorate now includes the hundreds of thousands of young people who have turned 18 since the referendum, including one daughter of mine, as it happens. They didn't have a voice then, and they should now. It's their future, more than anybody's, that's at stake. And let the people decide—the electorate, not Downing Street stitch-ups, not a Conservative leadership candidate, not Johnson, Rees-Mogg, Farage, but the people. How could it possibly undermine democracy, as some suggest, to want to be as democratic as we can be—to be as current, to be as up to date as we can in measuring public opinion? 

If people had been offered a clear vision of what the alternative to EU membership was, what Brexit actually meant, before the referendum, we wouldn't be in this situation now. Llyr mentioned the work that had been done in preparing the ground for the referendum on Scottish independence. But that preparation wasn't done before this referendum. UK Government has to take responsibility for rushing through that party political referendum—which is what it was—and we are all, on both sides of the debate, reaping what was sown then. We can, on both sides of the debate, see that rushing to trigger article 50 with no route-map was a mistake, and I'm proud that my party colleagues at Westminster voted not to. We weren't ready. We can all, on both sides of the debate, agree that the UK establishment has been deeply, deeply tarnished through its mishandling of this whole affair.

So, today, I am confident that we will vote to declare this Assembly's unequivocal support for a confirmatory referendum—on whatever terms proposed by any Prime Minister—that the UK leaves the EU with 'remain' on the ballot paper. Plaid Cymru's assessment is clear: the Member elected for UKIP in the south-east of Wales says Plaid Cymru's changed its mind somehow on Brexit—referenced the fact that we co-authored the 'Securing Wales' Future' White Paper. We have always been and remained committed to the view that we are best served by staying in the European Union. What the work on that White Paper and our voting on indicative votes in Westminster, for example, has shown is that we have been responsible since the referendum and that we've taken the position that if we have to leave—we don't want to—if we have to leave, let's at least try to mitigate, let's at least try to think, 'What's in Wales's interests?' and put the case for what's best for Wales. We were ignored, and after the shambolic events of the last three years, yes, our assessment remains clear that leaving the European Union—our assessment is—would be detrimental to Wales—bad for farming, as Llyr discussed; bad for young people, as we heard from Helen; for the NHS; for the economy. I'm proud to stand alongside others from across political parties here in the National Assembly who share that assessment. Not everyone will agree with that assessment, but the beauty of what we're calling for today is that it's not Plaid Cymru's will that we wish to be followed, but the will of the people today. Let's give the people, not us, the final say, and let the people give their assessment of what has unfolded since June 2016. Our future and the future of our children is at stake.