I must say I'm enjoying the speeches in this really quite enchanting and important debate. When Alun was talking about Gwyn Alf's experiences at Normandy—it's the seventy-fifth anniversary; very appropriate that we heard that—I did think perhaps you'd go on to Wynford Vaughan-Thomas and his wonderful autobiography where he, of course, describes that he landed with the allies in the south of France and then fought his way through Burgundy, under occasional threat from the Wehrmacht but constant threat from French hospitality. It's a most incredible account of his experiences, but what wonderful characters they were.

I also appreciate the fact that Alun referred to a teacher, and I want to pay tribute to Roy Adams, who was head of history at Dwr-y-Felin Comprehensive School when I was there in the late 1970s. Now, I realise what an excellent history department that was. At the time, you think it's just normal and everywhere. The teaching of Welsh history was just integrated throughout the curriculum, both in terms of the importance that it was given, but also the feeling and how it connected to British and European history—and that, of course, is what should happen. I must say that I'm sure that I tested his vocation, but he would be pleased to know, I think, that I did the BBC quiz—I hope you've all done that—and I did get them all right, amazingly. [Laughter.] I'm sorry; I've always been an exhibitionist to some extent and I shouldn't boast, but I did get them all right.

I think it's really important that we cherish what makes us. History is always in the making. Beyond bare facts and natural disasters and the brutal events, it is about the importance of what happened, how we understand more. Our view of the battle of Bosworth is very different from the Edwardians'. Our view of the reformation in Wales is very different from what was thought at the height of non-conformity in the nineteenth century. These things constantly have to be examined.

But, I go back to the Cwricwlwm Cymreig, published in 2012, which I think was quite seminal in saying that the importance of Welsh history needed to be examined. It was very balanced, that report, because it said that generally in the UK the teaching of the history of the home nations was poor. I think that this accounts also, perhaps, for the lack of teaching of English history, Scottish history and perhaps Irish history as well, though this goes beyond my own understanding in depth. But, I do think that, in Britain, we have underplayed the importance of the home nations in constituting a greater British experience. Now, some people will not agree with the political dimension of that, but the social, cultural and geographic dimension has always been there, and I think that that needs to come through in the teaching of Welsh history.

But, I do commend what that report said in 2012, because I think it is really quite challenging that Welsh history should be central to the experience of Welsh students, so that everyone has the experience that I had at Dwr-y-Felin Comprehensive School. It is certainly, I think, something that may require us to look at guidance. The materials—I think, again, that report said that heritage-funded organisations in Wales should really be part of developing not only curriculum materials, but also—. Where I was brought up, you could go to Neath Abbey and see the physical consequence of the reformation, and it's really important that young people get that experience.

I do want to finish, however, on the importance of the public understanding of Welsh history, which goes well beyond what happens in school and goes well beyond Wales. I think the public understanding of Welsh history in the rest of the UK is probably the most meagre experience in terms of those who are not Welsh and what they get. I think that they are missing out. How many English people don't realise the significance of their place names? How many people in and around central Scotland—Glasgow and the like—don't have any real understanding of the kingdom of Strathclyde? I went to the National Museum of Scotland once and asked, 'Do you have any collection or material on the kingdom of Strathclyde?' and I was told, 'No, this is the museum of Scotland.' Their concept of Scotland is post the kingdom of Strathclyde. I think that that is something that we should question because I don't think you can understand British history and Welsh history without understanding that the great works that were earlier referred to, the originals tended to be found in that part of what we now call Scotland.

Finally, the British Museum had quite a good exhibition on the Celtic civilization a few years ago. But, where it petered out into alarming nothingness was its treatment of Wales. There was a little bit, but it was almost as if the Celtic civilization had evaporated. You had no sense of, 'Oh, it did continue, actually, through the language, culture and literature of Wales—and, indeed, other parts of the UK, and Spain and France.' This is something that we do need to challenge. It's a really good subject for this backbench debate, and I do commend Siân for bringing it forward.