Which brings us to the debate on the petition on declaring a climate emergency and fitting all policies with zero-carbon targets. I call on the Chair of the Petitions Committee to move the motion—Janet Finch-Saunders.

Motion NDM7076 Janet Finch-Saunders

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

Notes the petition ‘P-05-869 Declare a Climate Emergency and fit all policies with zero-carbon targets’ which received 6,148 signatures.

Motion moved.

Diolch, Llywydd. May I begin by expressing thanks, on behalf of the Petitions Committee, for the opportunity to open this debate today? The petition 'Declare a Climate Emergency and fit all policies with zero-carbon targets' was submitted by Matthew Misiak on behalf of the Extinction Rebellion campaign. This petition attracted no less than 6,148 signatures, and the Petitions Committee is bringing it forward today under the process whereby we consider requesting debates on petitions with more than 5,000 signatures, and it would be remiss of us not to thank the Business Committee members for their move to see this tabled for debate.

It is clear that no Parliament or Government can ignore the urgency of the challenge posed by climate change. Neither can we, as politicians and policy makers, fail to recognise the level of public concern in relation to this and other environmental issues such as biodiversity, plastic pollution and air quality. All of these issues are frequently raised, both in this Chamber and through the petitions process, and all are captured by this particular petition. Members will also be well aware of the wider protest and campaigning that has been orchestrated by the Extinction Rebellion movement, and which forms the backdrop to this petition.

The Petitions Committee has noted, of course, that the Welsh Government has indeed declared a climate emergency during the time since this petition was drafted. In a statement issued on 30 April 2019, the Minister for environment expressed her hope that the declaration

'can help to trigger a wave of action at home and internationally.'

The statement also recognised that tackling climate change

'requires collective action and the government has a central role to making that collective action possible.'

Now, the petitioners describe this as 'an important step' and have congratulated the Welsh Government on being among the first Governments in the world to take this action. A number of local authorities, towns and cities across Wales have also made similar declarations, and I'm thrilled that my own local authority has done so also. So, it is apparent there is increasing recognition of the role that all parts of society must play in responding to a challenge on the scale of climate change.

However, there is no universally agreed definition of what declaring a climate emergency should mean in practice, and what action should be taken as a result. Therefore, I hope that this debate will assist in shining a light on the scale of that challenge, and provide additional clarity on the practical changes that will arise as a result of the Welsh Government’s own climate emergency declaration.

Indeed, whilst the Petitions Committee wholeheartedly supports the Welsh Government in taking this step, we also believe that the actions or changes that follow are more important than the declaration itself. Practical change is what is required to ensure that this amounts to much more than a symbolic measure. Beyond the headline declaration of a climate emergency, the petition also proposes a number of actions that the petitioners believe should be taken by the Welsh Government. I will now move on to briefly outline these in turn.

The petition calls on the Welsh Government to ensure that all its policies are consistent with the intention of averting further climate change and ecological collapse. The petitioners want to see detailed action plans produced, with time frames for progress towards making Wales a carbon-neutral country. They highlight the well-being of future generations Act as a good example of Wales leading the way in developing progressive policy, but argue too that, on its own, this Act does not motivate Government, as well as the public and private sectors, to act in accordance with the urgency of the situation. The petitioners press the Welsh Government to make further investments in the development of the green economy, and to stress the opportunity for Wales to be a leader in green technologies.

Moving on, the petition specifically calls on the Welsh Government to enact legally binding policy measures to reduce carbon emissions to net zero, not by 2050 but by 2025. It goes without saying that this is an extremely demanding call. Welsh legislation currently contains a target to reduce emissions by 80 per cent by 2050, with interim targets for the decades leading up to this. In May, a report by the Committee on Climate Change recommended targeting a 95 per cent reduction by 2050. This would form part of an intention to reduce UK greenhouse gas emissions to net zero by 2050. As Members know, the Welsh Government formally accepted this recommendation last week, and will be bringing forward regulations to update the target in legislation. I should note, however, that the 2050 deadline has been described as 'woefully inadequate' by the petitioners. The petition states—and the Extinction Rebellion campaign has been vocal about—the need to take this action by 2025. I am sure that the pace of the response to the challenges of climate change will be a topic for further debate this afternoon.

Finally, the petition calls for a citizens assembly to be established to oversee the changes required. The petitioners argue that Welsh citizens should be able to help develop and to scrutinise the policies that will actually underpin the degree of change that is required. They believe that such an approach will minimise conflicts of interest, and support politicians to make decisions for the long-term good of all. Again, this proposal is something that Members may wish to consider during their contributions this afternoon.

In conclusion, the Petitions Committee recognises the important steps already taken by the Welsh Government, not least through its climate emergency declaration and the commitments that the Minister has made. Nevertheless, we all need to continue to apply strong scrutiny to the concrete actions that must be taken, and we must all work together to develop effective solutions that will make these challenging commitments into a reality. I therefore look forward to listening to the rest of this afternoon’s debate. Diolch yn fawr.

Suzy Davies took the Chair.

Thank you very much. I will start just by reminding Members of some statistics and facts. Temperature on average on a global level has increased every decade over the past 50 years, and the 10 warmest years on record have been in the last 22 years, so that tells us something. It is estimated that the climate crisis is already killing 300,000 per annum, and we know that scientists are of the view that any increase over two degrees in global temperatures would lead to catastrophic effects. And what does that mean? Well, further flooding, more ill health, more war, of course, more drought, and the creation of hundreds of millions of refugees, and destroying ecosystems and whole species.

So, it’s entirely appropriate that the Government, this Parliament and others have declared a climate emergency. I’m pleased that the committee Chair referred to the work that’s happened at Conwy council. I’m sure that she would join with me in congratulating Aaron Wynne, the Plaid Cymru councillor, of course, who moved that motion, and would want to thank him for his work in persuading his fellow councillors to support that motion, as Plaid Cymru councillors have done in Carmarthenshire, Powys and a number of other counties across Wales. But, of course, the declaration of a climate emergency is but one step. What that has to mean, of course, is that that leads to real change. Campaigners, such as those who have been on the steps of the Senedd, and us as a party and others, I know, in this Chamber and beyond will now be scrutinising the Government’s response in detail, particularly, in light of that declaration.

Many of us were slightly concerned when the First Minister said the day after the declaration of a climate emergency that that didn't necessarily mean a change of policy on behalf of the Welsh Government. That was a cause for concern for me, certainly. But, the important thing now is that we accept that the status quo is not an option. [Interruption.] Yes, Joyce, of course.

I'm glad that you have taken an intervention and I thank you for that. Could you explain why, according to a Cambrian News report, when I suggested that we do some rewilding and a £3.4 million project to rewild a large area of north Ceredigion and the Dyfi valley—Summit to Sea—Plaid Cymru opposed that?

I haven't read the article, but if you ask the people that I think would have been commenting on that, the point is that the rewilding agenda is being driven by outside forces and isn't a process that's rooted in the local community and is growing from the bottom up. Surely, you'd be the last person who would want to see multimillionaires telling local people in west Wales what to do. It's surely about those people having ownership of that process and making it happen themselves. Otherwise it's not sustainable, and we could call it all kinds of things, but it wouldn't be democracy. But, I digress. [Interruption.] Yes, and I think you achieved your purpose in intervening. Right. Where was I?

The point I was making, of course, is we’re not talking about the risks, we’re not talking about a climate problem here; we’re talking about a climate crisis or emergency, and that means a response, yes, but a swift response and urgent action. The intergovernmental panel of the United Nations on climate change has said that we have but 12 years to reach our aims, and therefore we do have to take action as a matter of urgency.

The Government, before the declaration of a climate emergency, had published their ‘A Low Carbon Wales’ paper. Now, that was a collection of many statements and initiatives that had previously been announced. I accept that the Minister had asked officials to look again at that. I’m not sure what the timetable for doing that is, but reform will be needed and that will need to be strengthened. And I hope we don’t see just tinkering at the edges. I’ve referred regularly to work of the Institute for Welsh Affairs on re-energising Wales and, for me, that gives us a route to reach a Wales that is self-sufficient in renewable energy by 2035. I think that is a target that the Government should consider adopting.

Now, what we see in that Government document—‘A Low Carbon Wales’—at the moment are commitments to consult, to consider, to start to look at, and those days are long gone. The time has come now to take action. I also want to say that I’m extremely pleased that this Assembly is going to gather a citizens' assembly together. That’s a positive step, and I would like to see that as a more permanent feature of our democracy. But, for that to succeed, then we as politicians, this Assembly and certainly the Government, must listen and must take full account and take action on the basis of what is said by that citizens’ assembly, because the danger is that it will be nothing more than a talking shop.

I congratulate the 6,000-odd petitioners for raising this with us today. I think a similar number signed a petition when I was initially elected to chair the climate change committee. There were similar misplaced security concerns at the time, and I was called in for a special discussion about how we were going to deal with a concern that the committee was going to be overrun by protesters, which I'm pleased to say didn't happen, any more than it did on the more recent occasion—albeit, in the case of the first committee that I chaired, we scheduled it for a 9 a.m. start on the Thursday immediately after Wales had been playing the Euro 2016 semi-final the night before. We didn't have any protesters at all.

We see, though, in the petition the demand that we have—the emphasis on net zero. There is one thing that I'd like to understand about this, and I don't know whether any other Members will be able to assist me in their speeches, or otherwise, or whether this is clear from the petition. By 'net zero', do they mean net zero within the United Kingdom? So, that's taking into account extra tree growth—which is certainly something that I would like to see and the offsetting from that—but not taking into account international offsetting. I'm not clear quite what's required. The UK position appears to have been that they are including that international offsetting, which makes it an awful lot cheaper to obtain this goal. When you get very close to eliminating carbon emissions, even if some are offset on a domestic basis, it gets an awful lot more expensive at the margin to do so because you've already taken the low-hanging fruit. 

One thing I think is very important in this debate—and I think some of the petitioners recognise this—is to understand how far the United Kingdom has come on this since the Kyoto commitment. We are now, I think, just over 40 per cent below 1990 levels of emissions, and that is virtually the largest reduction seen anywhere in the world, and I think that's something we should recognise and take pride in. The current legislation is until 2050, the 80 per cent reduction—basically, that would mean the same reduction again, but actually as a proportion or a percentage, that is a higher reduction. It's also more difficult because the easy gains from closing most of the coal-fired power stations and a lot of the heavy industry that we had in the 1980s, at least to an extent, but no longer do—that has already happened. So I'd like to ask to what extent we want to achieve this by paying other countries to do this for us on the basis they can make carbon reductions for less cost than we can in this country once we have got so close to the target that is projected.

I'd also like to just have people consider what is actually involved if we're going to get to this. It's one thing to declare a climate emergency—. And initially I thought the First Minister was saying it was just declaratory, and he wasn't planning any changes of policy, but then when he made a statement in the Chamber about the M4 decision he did emphasise climate change issues, albeit he hadn't mentioned those in the decision notice. So I'm still a little unclear on the extent to which this is changing Welsh Government policy or remains merely declaratory.

But for some of the big issues, if you want to move to anything like this target, you are going to have to rip out gas boilers from millions of homes and replace them with an alternative. Now, ground source heat pumps is one option that has seen some take-up, but broadly, if you want to do this at speed, if you're going to have electric central heating instead of gas central heating, at the moment that costs at least three times as much, and I just ask Members to consider how plausible it is, going to persuade or potentially even coerce constituents to make that change. I think we need to consider this as well as looking at what other people are doing internationally, and I think to the extent that people look to us for a lead—and I don't know the degree to which they do or do not—there may be some value in that.

I think we're at 1.8 per cent of global emissions now, and if the impact of this is going to be such economic self-harm that we are no longer to export many of the goods we are, or are going to struggle to compete with other countries that don’t take the same steps, then it will be less attractive than otherwise. Similarly, if we do see technology develop to such an extent that we can cost-effectively remove carbon from the atmosphere, then that makes it much more attractive to go down this route. On the other hand, if that isn't a technology that becomes cost-effective or doable, then the cost-benefit trade off for pushing this direction will be less attractive. Thank you.

I very much welcome this petition and the opportunity to speak on it. When historians look back on the National Assembly for Wales, they'll be astonished at how much time has been spent on how we trade with other countries and how little time we have given to the threat to our world and all species, including ourselves. It's beyond serious argument now that we're seeing climate change, and that unless action is taken now, we will see it getting worse and worse.

I'm pleased the Welsh Government has announced a climate change emergency. This declaration sends a clear signal that the Welsh Government understands that climate change threatens our health, economy, infrastructure, natural environment and, basically, ourselves. Tackling climate change is not an issue that can be left to individuals or to the free market. It requires collective action and for the government to have a central role in making that collective action possible.

I support the Welsh Government in its commitment to achieve a carbon-neutral public sector by 2030 and to co-ordinate action to help other areas of the economy to make a decisive shift away from fossil fuels, involving academia, industry and the third sector. If you look at the science, firstly, carbon oxidises into carbon dioxide. Carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas. How do we know that? Compare Venus with Mercury. Mercury is about 58 million km from the sun, Venus is approximately twice as far at 108 million km. So you'd expect Mercury to have a hotter surface than Venus. The opposite is true. Why? It can only be about the atmosphere. Mercury's atmosphere contains small amounts of hydrogen, helium and oxygen. The atmosphere of Venus is layers of gases surrounding Venus. It is composed primarily of carbon dioxide. That means that it holds the temperature. We know that. It's not a matter of argument or, 'I don't believe in climate change', or 'I don't believe in carbon dioxide and greenhouse gas'—the facts are there. This is conclusive proof that carbon dioxide traps heat and makes the surface hotter.

'But we have carbon dioxide in our atmosphere now', people say. Yes, if we didn't have carbon dioxide, we would not have the temperate climate that exists on most of the earth. It traps heat. What we know is that if we get more carbon dioxide, the planet will get hotter and hotter.

As climate change takes place, our daily weather and normal temperatures will change, and the homes of plants and animals will be affected all over the world. Polar bears and seals are a good example of animals that will be affected by climate change. They'll have to find new land for hunting and living if the ice in the Arctic melts, but the fact is—more realistically—that these species will almost certainly become extinct.

Anyone over 50 will have noticed how our weather has changed in Wales. Simple things such as the end of persistent drizzle—which we used to have for days and days on end—have now been replaced by short periods of very, very heavy rain, which has led to flooding in many areas.

Looking at the rest of the world, starting with the United States of America—which is the best place to start, because it's the home many of the deniers—heat waves and droughts in Texas and the midwest set records for highest monthly average temperatures. Multimonth extreme heat has been unprecedented since the start of reliable instrumental records in 1895. Higher temperatures lead to increased rates of evaporation. Recently Texas and Oklahoma experienced more than 100 days over 100 degrees Fahrenheit. Both states set new records for the hottest summer since record keeping began in 1895. Heavy downpours are increasing nationally, especially over the last three to five decades. The heaviest rainfall events have become heavier and more frequent, and the amount of rain falling on the heaviest rain days has also increased. Since 1991, the amount of rain falling in very heavy precipitation events has been significantly above average. America is suffering; the rest of the world is going to follow.

Turning to Africa. New research says the continent will experience many extreme outbreaks of intense rainfall over the next 80 years leading to floods, storms and farming failure, moving from intense rain every 30 to 40 years to intense rain every three or four years. This will be interspersed with crippling droughts that will also affect food production.

A four degree warmer world will lead to drowned cities, drowned island nations, stagnant seas, intolerable heatwaves, huge areas uninhabitable and over 11 billion people trying to live on it. A four degree warmer world is the stuff of horror movies—a sort of apocalypse coming to you shortly. This is, unfortunately, the direction we are heading in if we fail to reduce carbon dioxide increasing in the atmosphere to stop global warming. Nice words and limited action are not an option. We only have one world. For the last 200 years we have abused it. Unless we take action now, then we are in danger of destroying it and most life forms, and that includes our own.

Climate change is one of the biggest issues right now, and the activity throughout the world is something to admire and to encourage. But what really frustrates me about Wales is that we have a Government declaring a climate change emergency, and yet the actual concrete policies on the ground totally fly in the face of that declaration.

As ever, I'll talk about local development plans, because those are the blueprints for the future of Wales, of our communities. And if we look at Cardiff's local development plan, there's just field upon field being concreted right now, habitats being destroyed, which will never, ever be replaced, flood plains being built on, and an absolute calamity for the environment. So, please forgive me, but we're here talking about the climate change emergency and we all agree on it it seems, almost, and yet what is being done flies in the face of it, as I said.

I'll declare an interest, because very near to where I live, there are going to be 10,000 extra cars on the road every single day. And the number is increasing already. We see gridlock. We have cars throwing out poisonous fumes. It just seems that nowadays everyone I speak to has asthma. People in their late 40s and 50s are developing asthma nowadays.

What I really would love to see from the Government in this Assembly is some proactive policies. Trams—let's have electric trams in this city. Let's make sure that every bus that runs is an electric bus. Why aren't we greening public infrastructure? We have bridges everywhere ferrying tens of thousands of cars every single day. The flyover in Gabalfa—green it. Look what they do around the world. [Interruption.] Yes. 

One reason in terms of electric buses is that they cost approximately twice as much as conventional buses. Perhaps that cost will come down, but in the meantime how would the Member like to pay for that additional cost?

That's a really good question. What we need to do is make it a political priority, because if it is a climate change emergency with this Government, then make it a priority. How much money was spent on the M4, for example? £115 million. I could stand here and list waste after waste after waste. Opportunity lost after opportunity lost. When you don't want to do something, saying there's not the money is always an excuse. What we should be doing is investing in clean transport. If we accept that it is an emergency then we really have to do something now and not just talk about it. Diolch yn fawr. 

I agree with Neil McEvoy that we have got to change the way we do things. Clearly, we do need to introduce electric trams and buses. I absolutely agree that we need to highlight the need to change planning policy, so that we're not building housing developments in areas where there is insufficient public transport to enable people to get around, but I would invite Councillor McEvoy to focus on ensuring that the local authority where he represents his local community has got that in mind too. Because it isn't just in the area that he represents that there's been houses being put up in areas where the transport system is simply inadequate to cope with it.

What we do need is a transformative policy to ensure that we have a metro system that ensures that development takes place around the metro hubs and spokes. Because we absolutely cannot afford to have more carbon emissions from vehicles and we have to plan differently to step up to the plate on climate change. Because we have to remember that the UN inter-governmental panel on climate change warns us that we've only got 12 years to save the world. That's a pretty scary concept. So, I very much welcome the Welsh Government's declaration of a climate emergency, but we need to follow that up with actions to deliver on that.

We were reminded yesterday by Darren Millar about 30 years since the Towyn flood, and I'm afraid to say that that sort of event is going to become more common unless we change our ways. We have to bear in mind that we are only in control over what goes on in the United Kingdom. We cannot do anything about what goes on in other countries, other than joining in with international organisations and urging them to meet their obligations under the Paris agreement. 

But, going back to what we can affect, I think that Mark Reckless is absolutely right to ask the question, 'Can we really afford to rip out gas boilers and have ground-source and air-source heat pumps instead?' And the answer is, 'Absolutely.' We must be able to, because the more people who use ground-source and air-source heat pumps, the reduction in the price will go with it. We have to have a green new deal to address this problem, and that involves really transforming the way we do things.

We've got to have the electric trams and buses that Neil McEvoy talked about. How will we pay for them? Well, at the moment, we need to pay for them from taxing people who do the wrong thing. At the moment, we have a UK Government that is resistant to maintaining the escalator on the energy price that we're charged at the petrol pumps. We should be making car transport more expensive relative to public transport. I'd personally like to see public transport provided for free because I think that is a necessary measure, in line with what David Attenborough and the UN experts are warning us. We have to have active travel routes to all our schools so that all our children will be able to either walk or cycle, because that has to be the main mode of transport for children who live within a reasonable distance of where they're going to school.

So, I think that it does require a transformation in the way we plan services, in the way we retrofit all our housing. Wales has more antiquated housing than other parts of the United Kingdom and, in addition to that, we are continuing to allow the mass house builders to build houses that are not energy efficient, and are going to need to be retrofitted. So, we need to put a stop to that and change Part L of the planning policy. It absolutely fits in with the green new deal that we absolutely have to have.

I don't think any of us have a glass bowl to see what are the changes that are going to be necessary, but we all need to put our heads together to work out what we have to do, and we have to have radical change. I'm proud to be sponsoring— 

Will you give way? 

Okay. 

Thanks. I'm saying this in the spirit of co-operation, because it's your party that put through the local development plan in Cardiff. So, I wonder whether you would maybe join me and other people to ask them to alter the plan, and to stop stages 3, 4 and 5, where a massive amount of environmental damage is going to be done. So, would you join us, cross-party, in doing that? 

Thank you for that intervention. I think when the facts change, we have to change our mind, and I think that is why the First Minister made the right decision on the M4. I think that we will need to revisit the local development plan, because the climate emergency is now much worse than we had estimated when the local development plan was implemented. So, it does require us to look at absolutely everything.

I was about to go on to say that I'm proud to be hosting, along with Llyr Gruffydd, the Extinction Rebellion seminar that's going to be taking place on 4 July, because I think they will come up with some really energetic ideas about some of the things that we really do need to do. The future of our planet is in our hands. We can simply do nothing as legislators and allow disaster to strike for our grandchildren, or we legislate to change. 

Minister, the strength of feeling on this matter is evident from the amount of correspondence I'm sure that we've all received, and the fact that our young people are motivated to go on strike and that Extinction Rebellion have recently taken over parts of London and are threatening to close down major airports by fair means or foul. It seems to me that the Welsh Government caught the mood of the nation when it declared its own climate change emergency. Minister, I was as concerned as Andrew R.T. Davies earlier, but you've now explained that apart from this emergency being notified to Cabinet on 29 April as an item in 'any other business', it was actually discussed in various other meetings previous to your announcement, as this declaration affects all of us and every single area of Government.

I listened to an interview on Talk Radio, where a representative of Extinction Rebellion was suggesting that everyone in the UK is entitled to one return flight per year, and while I appreciate that they are not yet elected, they do appear to be driving the agenda. I'm no expert in this area, but I do know that air travel is one of the biggest pulls on resources, so I wonder how this climate change emergency declaration sits alongside the Welsh Government’s continued ownership of the airport and the active promotion of air travel, including the subsidy of the Anglesey air link?

This petition has been partly addressed by the declaration. However, I do question the practicality of the other requirements, certainly in terms of speed, and I think there is something about expectation management across all of the Governments of the UK. Be honest about what is achievable, and point out that cheap clothes and cheap food all cost something, somewhere.

I'm a keen seamstress, and I like nothing better than finding something beautiful and unique in a charity shop and making it my own. The same with furniture. More emphasis should be put on people reusing things, but, yes, let’s all raise our game. Action has already been taken: the carrier bag levy from Wales—fantastic—recycling and so on. We're the highest in recycling rates throughout the UK. However, I think that there are some quick wins that need to happen. I note that a recent report suggests that Wales is one of the least well-equipped areas in terms of electric charging points for cars, and we’ve been talking about this for ages.

There's also something about our circle of influence, and it seems sensible to me to start with public sector buildings and practices: bring these to carbon neutral, embed good practice, and encourage our constituents to do the same. If we don't do it, they're not going to do it. After all, this is everybody’s problem and we're all part of the solution.

I call on the Minister for Environment, Energy and Rural Affairs, Lesley Griffiths. 

Thank you very much, chair. I'm very pleased to be responding on behalf of the Welsh Government. We accept the motion and we note the petition, and I, too, am grateful to the thousands of people who signed the petition and the many more who brought such a focus to this crucial issue in recent weeks.

At the end of April, as has been pointed out, I declared a climate change emergency on behalf of the Welsh Government. Later the same week, this National Assembly voted in favour of such a declaration and they were the first Parliament in the world to do so. I've explained the reasons why we did that several times in this place, but I will reiterate them because I think it's really important, and I also want to report on what's happened since then. 

So, the declaration was to galvanise people, organisations, businesses into action too, and I just want to give a couple of examples. I mentioned in questions earlier this afternoon that several local authorities have now declared a climate emergency, along with several town councils, and I think the majority of them have said they did it following our lead. Also businesses, and I was very pleased that the businesses that sit on my colleague the Minister for Economy and Transport's economic council asked me to go along to the latest meeting to listen to what they want to do to help mitigate climate change. So, I think it has had the effect we wanted in galvanising people, but, of course, there's much more to do. 

I think the level of public support for the climate emergency campaign really reflects the desire for politicians to tell the truth about the situation, and the Welsh Government is under no illusion as to the dangers we face as well as the solutions that are within our grasp. Every Minister will need to look at their policies. I've said that the low-carbon delivery plan—and I would urge every Member to read that plan—there are 100 policies and proposals, and, sometimes, I think that, perhaps, it hasn't been read in the depth it should be done. We set that out in March, but even though that was set out in March, I have asked officials to review it in light of the advice I received from the UK climate change committee. 

So, alongside that, I'm also looking at the sustainable land management. Unlike Plaid Cymru, I think we should get away from basic payment schemes because I think the proposals that we've got, rewarding environmental outcomes, rewarding sustainable food production, will help with the agricultural carbon emissions, and I'm really pleased to see the way that the NFU held a conference recently about sustainable food production and land management, and they've come forward with proposals to be carbon neutral by 2040, 10 years ahead of us. So, I think it's really important that we look at that proposal too. 

Cardiff Airport has been thrown at me many times. It was thrown at me again today. I should say, again: read the advice from the UK Committee on Climate Change. Unlike any other country, I think, in the UK, our carbon budgets include all emissions from aviation in Wales, both domestic and international flights. I think we're the only country to do that. So, the UK CCC has not assumed any reduction in international aviation emissions arising from Welsh or UK unilateral policy action. 

We agree with the petitioners that we must ensure that all current and future policies are consistent with averting further climate change and ecological collapse, and I think the two Labour Members who spoke both alluded to that. Our Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015 and our Environment (Wales) Act 2016 were put in place with exactly that purpose in mind. Our environment Act, for example, places legal duties on Welsh Ministers and public bodies to maintain and enhance biodiversity. There is a requirement to produce their first report on how they are fulfilling their duty by the end of this year, and our environment Act also includes legally binding targets for the reduction of greenhouse gas emissions across the Welsh economy.

But, of course, for targets to be meaningful, they must be set on the basis of the best available scientific evidence and must be accompanied by actions to meet them. That's why I receive advice from the UK CCC, the independent statutory advisory body made up of experts in the field of climate science, economics, behavioural science and business. I mentioned I'd received the advice from the committee that was asked for by me, the UK Government and the Scottish Government, and that was in relation to setting a net-zero emissions target for the UK and our contribution to that goal. I've accepted their advice, I've committed to legislate next year to increase Wales's emissions reduction target from 80 per cent to 95 per cent by 2050, in line with the achievement of a net-zero target for the UK.

Of course, the petitioners ask us to go further and set a net-zero target for Wales in advance of that date. So, the response of Welsh Government to that call is to say: we, too, recognise the need to go further. That's why we accepted the advice, and when we did that, we signalled our ambition to develop a net-zero target for Wales. So, we now need to work with the UK CCC, and with other stakeholders across Wales, to identify the ways in which a more ambitious target can be met. [Interruption.] Yes.

I wonder if I might just ask for a point of clarification. With that net-zero ambition, is that net zero for Wales or is that allowing for international offsetting and paying other countries who could reduce carbon dioxide emissions more cheaply than us?

That was for Wales, but we are taking advice on the latter point that you made also.

We share the view expressed by the petitioners that Welsh citizens must have a central role in bringing forward new ideas and initiatives. Where groups of citizens come together to drive action on climate change, this Government will listen and work with them to make it happen. Stepping up our efforts to tackle climate change means we must foster a new collaboration across our society and our economy. Everyone, and that includes every Assembly Member, has a role to play.

There are many ways for citizens to contribute to this agenda through engaging with us as their Assembly Members, of course with their local councils, or driving change amongst businesses through the consumer choices they make. There are Welsh Government initiatives focused on supporting citizens to access the opportunities and resources to take action locally, such as our eco-schools initiative and our enabling natural resources and well-being grant schemes. So, our message to Welsh citizens is this: if you share our determination to tackle the climate and ecological crises, and if you want to put forward your ideas, there has never been a better time than now.

Thank you, Minister. And I call on Janet Finch-Saunders to reply to the debate.

Thank you, chair. Thank you, first of all, to the Members and, of course, obviously, to the Minister for responding to this, and I'll just touch on some of the points that have actually further added to this debate.

Llyr Gruffydd was quite right to point out increased temperatures and a real emphasis on the fact that a 2 per cent increase would actually be catastrophic—drought and even war that destroy, and the destruction of our ecosystems. Mark Reckless was actually quite right, also, to raise questions about how that net-zero figure equates, and what I can tell you is that the UK Government, in their advice, published in May 2009, state that while they recommend that the UK and Scotland should set a net-zero target by 2050 for the UK, 2045 for Scotland, it recommended that the Welsh Government should legislate for at least a 95 per cent reduction in all greenhouse gas emissions against the 1990 baseline by 2050. The new target could enter legislation in 2020, alongside Wales's third carbon budget. And it says:

'This target represents Wales's fair contribution to the UK target and hence to the Paris Agreement. It does not imply lower policy ambition or effort in Wales, but reflects the large share of agriculture emissions in Wales and lower access to suitable sites to store captured CO₂.'

The Minister has actually gone further and put:

'In view of this and the declaration of a climate emergency following publication of the plan, we believe whilst accepting the CCC advice—', the UK Government,

'we must go further. Therefore, on behalf of the Welsh Government I am declaring our ambition today to bring forward a target for Wales to achieve net zero emissions no later than 2050.'

So, there is clarification needed, you're quite right to point that out, as to how that net-zero figure—what it means.

Neil McEvoy highlighted air pollution. We're now seeing more children with asthma, and I really liked you calling for a greening of public infrastructure—a really good point.

Jenny Rathbone AM on the need for metro systems—we simply cannot afford any more carbon emissions, and you are quite right to point out that as we move forward with our house building—that too must encompass and realise the responsibility that that has to play and its part in reducing our carbon emissions. I've got to be honest, I really liked your point of 12 years to save the world. We're not talking 2050 here, we are talking not that far away.

So, I really appreciate all the comments, and, of course, Mandy, you also made some extremely good points about the public strength of feeling, not just Extinction Rebellion, but also, too, the fact that children are now so aware in our schools—we cannot let them down as politicians.

Mike Hedges, of course—I liked the point that you actually said about how we are actually facing—and it's not a word I can say really easily—apocalypse. But that actually does, in one word, for me, size up, really, what today's debate is about and how we really do need to move forward with this.

Someone said to me—it was a child at an event I went to. A child said to me, 'Why do we call it climate change? Change is something you do over a period of time. We really are now facing a climate emergency.' And I thought from a little girl came such wise words.

So, it only remains now for me, chairman, to thank Matthew Misiak, Extension Rebellion, and every single person who signed the petition and for actually having confidence in the petition system that their concerns, their views, would be aired, debated and discussed, with comments forthcoming from the Minister here in the National Assembly for Wales. So, thank you. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Thank you very much. The proposal is to note the committee's report. Does any Member object? Therefore, the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.