4. Statement by the Minister for Environment, Energy and Rural Affairs: Delivering a Low Carbon Wales

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:30 pm on 25 June 2019.

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Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 3:30, 25 June 2019

Thank you for that contribution. I think Andrew R.T. Davies spoke longer than I did with the initial statement—[Laughter.]—but I will try to answer all his questions. 

I think it's really important that when we consider the potential cost of any transition, we don't lose sight of the economic opportunities that can be realised. I think we focus perhaps too often on the loss of jobs. I think we can learn lessons. If you look at coal mining back in the 1980s, and the transition from that, I think there are lots of lessons to learn from that, and lots of things that we should avoid. But I think we have to have the courage to lead the way on this.

You ask about the financial cost, and there is something that we are looking at; I think the Trefnydd answered in her business statement, with her Minister for finance hat point of view, that, clearly, decarbonisation is something that she's questioning us all on as we start the budget process—well, we have started it, we've had the initial meeting, and, obviously, it will be intensified over the summer recess. I go back to what I was saying in my original statement: every Minister has to look at their policies and their proposals in relation to decarbonisation and climate change, and, clearly, there will have to be movement of finances within every Minister's portfolios. 

I think also, when I received the UK Committee on Climate Change's advice around the 95 per cent target—that is relying on retaining the industrial base that we have and decarbonising it, rather than offshoring emissions, and I'm pleased that you welcome that, because I think it is really important to be globally responsible.

You talked about the future generations commissioner's 10-point climate emergency plan and the headlines. We obviously received that report last week. I think we did have it about 24 hours before it was made public, and, certainly, she's on the same side as us, and I very much welcome her contribution to this debate. I think it would be good for all public bodies. I've been very pleased that since we announced the climate emergency, since we declared the climate emergency, so many local authorities have come on board. And they say that it's because the Welsh Government led the way that they followed.

Last Thursday, the First Minister and I attended Natural Resources Wales offices here in Cardiff to have a presentation on what they've done since the Welsh Government announced, declared, the climate emergency. And they said it really made them look at what they're doing. And they've really led the way around the Carbon Positive project. I don't know if colleagues are aware of it; it's worth looking at. So, I think it's good to see public bodies in particular looking at what they can do, and also the private sector and businesses. And I think it was in the statement last Tuesday that I mentioned that I'd gone to the economic council that's chaired by my colleague Ken Skates, because business specifically asked if I would go, so they could talk about their response to the climate emergency and climate change. 

You asked quite a few questions around energy generation, and before, when planning was in my portfolio—and I think my portfolio is big enough, and I think it's good that I can work collaboratively with Julie James as the housing and planning Minister. We're a small Government and we work very collaboratively across the Government. But one of the last things I did before I had planning taken out of this portfolio was look at ensuring that fossil fuel applications and licences was absolutely at the bottom of the energy hierarchy, and we have a huge focus on renewable energy projects. And there are now more than 67,000—I was quite astounded at the number—of renewable energy projects here in Wales. And, now, 22 per cent of electricity—well, this is back in 2017—in Wales was generated from renewables. And you ask whether we should just be looking after own energy, or whether we should be looking to export. And I think, as we go forward, we might see a difference and an adjustment in that. 

You mentioned forestry, and I am not going to defend our tree planting. We're not planting enough trees. I've made that very clear—that we need to be looking at that—and, again, I will have to find funding within my budget, and, certainly, I think, again, I've mentioned previously in the Chamber that I am looking with NRW, because they do have land ready for reforestation, to see what funding we can do. You'll be aware of the First Minister's commitment in his manifesto to a national forest, and I've just received some options today, actually, which I need to look at. But, clearly, forestry is an important element of our land management policy that we will have post Brexit, and you'll be aware I'm going out to consultation in early July.

I think you're right about house building. I would like to ramp up our retrofitting schemes and programmes. We've made some significant advances and progress in the number of houses that we've retrofitted. But, again, the budget is the budget, and we are putting, I think, about £250 million into retrofitting and our energy efficiency programmes in the lifetime of this Government. What I think is really important—and I think the First Minister mentioned this in his questions—is that we're not building houses now that will need retrofitting 25 years, 20 years down the line.

You mentioned about the report I think that David Melding brought forward. And I did speak to David after last week's statement to say I'd be very interested to hear about his proposals for zero-carbon housing, and I hope we can meet in the near future.

You asked about the two groups we're setting up. I can't tell you how many groups I have. I certainly haven't got 40; I don't have many groups. But I do think, going forward we've made it very clear that the next plan that we bring forward next year needs to be an all-Wales one, and we need to bring everybody with us. And, of course, there are experts out there who can help us with this. And I'm always really pleased how many people are very willing to give of their time to help us as a Government. I referred to the industry group. Officials have already been actively engaging with industrial stakeholders, and I mentioned the economic council—the board members of that had asked me to go along to talk about the challenges and the opportunities. So, officials are already looking at establishing that group. It hasn't been established yet—it will be established this year, and it will be a pan-Wales working group.

The Climate Just advisory group, which was announced when the First Minister launched the carbon delivery plan, will advise us on the transition away from a fossil fuel-based economy, ensuring—and this is really important for me and for the Government—a fair and equitable transition for all of our society, and that includes all our workers and communities.