Item 7 on the agenda this afternoon is the debate on the Equality, Local Government and Communities Committee report 'Diversity in local government'. I call on the Chair of the committee to move the motion—John Griffiths.

Motion NDM7099 John Griffiths

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

Notes the report of the Equality, Local Government and Communities Committee, 'Diversity in local government', which was laid in the Table Office on 4 April 2019.

Motion moved.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I am pleased to open today’s debate on the Equality, Local Government and Communities Committee report on diversity in local government. I would like to start by thanking all those who contributed to our inquiry either by giving evidence in writing or orally. In particular, I would like to thank those who shared their personal experiences either as elected representatives, candidates or prospective candidates. We were able to hear these voices directly, through our online surveys and our visits to local authorities. It is important to hear the lived experiences of people, and this evidence enriched our understanding.

We know that the more representative councillors are of the communities they serve, the more informed and inclusive their decision making. Unfortunately, women, black and minority ethnic communities, individuals with disabilities, lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people, the young and those with lower incomes are markedly underrepresented.

Despite efforts to improve the situation, progress has been slow. As the Welsh Government is expecting to introduce its local government and elections Bill later this year, we felt it would be an opportune time to explore some of these issues and suggest solutions in time to be considered in that legislation.

The aim of our report was to identify practical ways forward that we believe could make an important contribution to increase participation from underrepresented groups. We made 22 recommendations in our report, of which 20 have been accepted or accepted in principle by the Minister. Two were rejected.

Our first two recommendations relate to making the most of technology to enable more councillors to participate in meetings remotely. As video communication methods are now commonplace in most workplaces, we would like to see better use of such technology to ease time pressures. This could particularly aid those members needing to travel from other work commitments and those with caring responsibilities. The Minister’s commitment to include provisions in the forthcoming Bill to enable greater use of remote attendance is therefore welcome, and we look forward to scrutinising these in due course.

We heard that allowing councillors to job share with another member, thereby sharing the workload, could be a practical way of making the role more attractive to a wider group of potential candidates. Job sharing works well for numerous roles across sectors, but we have not seen that trend extend to elected politicians to any great extent, though it was introduced for cabinet positions by Swansea council, where responsibility for portfolios is shared between two members. We support the principle of enabling such positions to be shared, and I’m pleased that the Minister has confirmed that the Bill will facilitate job sharing arrangements for members of council executives and leaders.

When provisions are brought forward in the Bill, we would expect to see appropriate consultation on the most effective way of implementing these, including using the experience not just in Swansea, but also in other sectors where they have successfully embedded job sharing into work practices.

We also recommended that the Welsh Government explore the feasibility of allowing job sharing between non-executive members. I acknowledge that this is not a straightforward issue and there are currently legislative restrictions and logistical concerns around this, but I welcome the Minister’s commitment to consider this issue as part of the next phase of the Diversity in Democracy programme. We will follow this up through our future scrutiny work.

We found that the lack of available information on the role of a councillor was a barrier to attracting potential candidates. People will not put themselves forward if they do not understand what the job entails, and this lack of information is also fuelling the notion among some people that a role in public life is not for them. The Minister has committed, through the Diversity in Democracy programme, to identify the scope and components of a campaign to increase diversity among candidates.

Once councillors are elected, it is crucial they receive adequate support to fulfil that role, particularly in dealing with the many pressures they will face. We heard that burnout among councillors is commonplace, as constituents increasingly expect their elected representatives to be available 24 hours, seven days a week. I'm pleased that our recommendations relating to training for members on maintaining a healthy work-life balance, and specifying that councillors should not be required to publish their home address on the council website, have been accepted.

Experiencing bullying, discrimination and harassment are unfortunately matters familiar to politicians at all levels. This was a common theme expressed to us as a barrier to attracting candidates, particularly those from under-represented groups. We made three recommendations in this area, including a call for stronger guidance for candidates and elected representatives on what is and isn't acceptable behaviour on social media, and it is important to stress the urgency in bringing about change, and further action is needed to prevent the unacceptable online abuse experienced by so many people. I welcome the commitment from the Welsh Government that it will take whatever steps it can to stand against this behaviour, and I ask the Minister if she would give a brief update today on how the Welsh Government will be taking forward its discussions on this with the UK Government.

We were concerned by evidence we heard relating to councillors not claiming the care allowance they're entitled to for fear of public criticism. This allowance is an important tool to enable those with caring responsibilities to undertake the councillor role, so more should be done to ensure take-up. We heard that local authorities reporting allowances on an individual rather than collective basis deters some from claiming. Therefore, we recommended that they should be encouraged to use the collective figure. This was accepted. However, our further suggestion that local authorities should collect information on the number of councillors entitled to claim the allowance, and how many do so, was rejected. The rationale was that councillors would need to identify how they meet the criteria, even if they did not intend to claim. Without knowing how many councillors are eligible, it's not possible to know the proportion who receive the allowance. I note, however, that Welsh Government has committed to asking the Independent Remuneration Panel for Wales to consider the matter further, and my committee will continue to pursue this in our scrutiny work going forward.

Learning from others who are councillors can provide valuable opportunities for under-represented groups to see that they too could do this important role. We commend the work of stakeholders to offer opportunities for under-represented groups to develop their skills and confidence. This is often done through leadership and mentoring schemes. However, despite positive take-up, some of the evidence we heard questioned their effectiveness. We therefore recommend an evaluation of the various schemes, with the aim of learning from and building on these to maximise their effectiveness.

We know that engagement in politics at a young age is key to maintaining interest long term. I am therefore disappointed at the rejection of our recommendation that a national mock election for young people be held at the same time as Assembly elections. We heard how such an arrangement is in place in Norway, and it means politicians paying more attention to what young people think. The Welsh Government’s response outlines how it intends to engage through education and awareness raising, but the excitement of participating in an election, of being able to voice an opinion, can make a huge impact and can be a catalyst to securing long-term engagement. So, I would urge the Minister to give further consideration to this recommendation.

Dirprwy Lywydd, despite being around half of the population, women only make up around 28 per cent of elected local authority members. Several witnesses, though not all, supported introducing some form of quotas, particularly around gender; one told us that, based on the current trend, there will not be equal gender representation until 2073. Clearly, something needs to change. The attempts to encourage more women into politics have not had the desired effect, and women face greater barriers to becoming elected representatives than men. Therefore positive action is needed. Whilst we haven’t included any specific recommendations in this report, it is an area of interest to us and we will explore these matters—

Will you take an intervention?

I will. Just to conclude this sentence, Helen Mary, we will explore these matters further as part of our scrutiny of the forthcoming local government and elections Bill.

I'm not sure whether this would have been part of your committee's considerations, John, but would you agree with me that the political parties have got some responsibility in this regard to look at how our own practices function and whether we are choosing women for winnable seats, whether that's at local or national level? I'm certainly sure that we in Plaid Cymru have got a long way to go to perhaps challenge some of the perceptions of our own members, so, as well as considering formal quotas, perhaps we also ought to look at what we are all doing, because that, of course, is the way that most people get to be elected—because they're chosen by a party to be elected. 

I absolutely accept that. We did take evidence from the political parties. On the subject of quotas, there were mixed views, and indeed there were mixed views in the committee membership also. But, in terms of positive action, I think the majority, certainly, of political parties accept that principle, but of course the key matter is how it's implemented, and that's where the question of winnable seats, I think, is absolutely crucial. 

Dirprwy Lywydd, in this report, then, to conclude, we have made recommendations to help achieve necessary change. In combination with measures being taken by the Welsh Government and stakeholders, we hope these can contribute to increasing diversity so that local councillors are more representative and better reflect the communities they serve. Diolch yn fawr. 

Although the impetus for further democratic diversity must be maintained, the 2017 UK general election delivered the most diverse House of Commons ever, with a rise in the number of women, LGBT, disabled and ethnic minority MPs elected, reflecting the direction of travel already set in this Welsh Parliament. However, as our report states, women, black, Asian and minority ethnic communities, disabled people, LGBT people, the young and those with lower incomes are markedly under-represented in Welsh local government, and work seeking to remedy this has not achieved sufficient progress. As the committee heard:

'The under-representation of women in local government is only part of a wider diversity issue. Increasing representation among younger people, those from different socio-economic backgrounds, individuals from BAME and LGBT community and individuals with disabilities remains a significant challenge.'

We heard that access to elected office funds already exists in England and Scotland to assist disabled people to stand for election, but no such fund currently exists in Wales. There was widespread support in the evidence for such a fund in Wales, with the Equality and Human Rights Commission telling us:

'I think it’s really important that we don’t fall behind in Wales in providing that support.'

The Minister stated that she is 'extremely interested' in testing the Welsh Government’s powers in this regard, adding that it was 'actively looking' at whether a fund could be created for people wishing to stand for election in Wales. We therefore recommended that, as a matter of priority, the Welsh Government establishes an access to elected office fund in Wales to assist disabled individuals to run for elected office—and yes, in winnable seats. The possibility of extending such a fund to support other under-represented groups should also be explored.

Although there was, as we heard, some support for quotas, particularly around gender, our report states that not all witnesses were convinced this was the best way forward. The Conservative, UKIP and Liberal Democrat representatives believed that it is the pool of candidates that is the issue, and encouraging a broader range of individuals to stand should be the target. As my party’s written submission said,

'the Conservative Party should do everything possible to encourage as wide a range of Candidates which is as representative as possible of the area it wishes to serve.'

This was further clarified by my party’s boundary review director when he told the committee that the UK party chairman had set a target of trying to get a 50/50 balance on the list. And he said he thinks what is most important is to increase the pool of women candidates. Women2Win are leading the campaign to increase the number of Conservative women councillors, AMs and MPs by providing support, advice and training to women who would like to enter local government, enter the National Assembly for Wales, enter Parliament or just wish to get more involved in politics, thereby ensuring that my party is representative of Welsh and British people, and fairly represents women at all levels of politics. Women2Win Wales is a broad cross-section of women and men from the Welsh Conservatives who want to ensure that women are fairly represented at all levels of politics by being selected for winnable seats.

As discussed in the committee’s report, the use of job sharing between local authority members has been undertaken successfully in Swansea city council. However, despite being supportive of the principle, Councillor Debbie Wilcox, leader of the Welsh Local Government Association, noted a 'slight anomaly' in current legislation, where the Local Government Act 2000 states that the number of executive members may not exceed 10. She also doubted whether greater job sharing between executive members would have a significant impact on attracting a wider range of candidates. However, it is right that the committee’s report calls for provisions to enable more job sharing between non-executive local authority members to be included in the forthcoming local government and elections Bill.

In her evidence to committee, the Minister agreed that the corporate complaints processes in local authorities need to be looked at after I asked her whether a monitoring officer should be prohibited from being party to complaints about a member, as happened in Flintshire, rather than acting in an advisory role. She stated that council officers not only serve the elected leadership, but are also accountable to local authority backbenchers, and that this also needs strengthening in the forthcoming Bill. I hope and trust that she will take forward that pledge amongst the others that she made. Diolch yn fawr.

I'd like to start my contribution to this debate by stating that I believe that representative democracy should be just that—who we elect should reflect our society in all of its diversity. Given that we make up more than 50 per cent of the population, gender balance in our democracy is vital. But we must also take an intersectional approach to this and make sure that we do whatever we can to increase representation of women from all backgrounds: women of colour, gay and trans, disabled, young and older women, working-class women and so on. I’m supportive of quotas to achieve this balance, but I also recognise that there are practical difficulties as well as the disagreement on the committee, and that’s why we weren’t able to make a recommendation along those lines.

There are significant barriers to overcome if we are to see a more diverse range of councillors, and not the same old grey, white and male caricature that has become the default image of a councillor for many people. And that’s not to disregard the great work that’s done by many councillors across Wales who work tirelessly for their communities. But it is important to highlight this issue at its core. Women, LGBTQ+ people, BAME people, working-class and disabled people are all under-represented, and we can’t remedy this under-representation without tackling sexism, racism, homophobia, transphobia, ableism, and all the other prejudices that are, unfortunately, still very prevalent in our society. Austerity and poverty are additional barriers to encouraging diversity in local government. I do hope, therefore, that the Government will look to implement the suggestions that are in this committee report. We must look at those barriers that stop people from standing in the first place, and this can be done by addressing several issues such as accessible meetings, making technology more widely used so that members can attend meetings perhaps via the phone or by Skype, as well as accommodating members with childcare commitments through providing childcare at the meetings, or allowing job sharing, amongst other measures.

A more nuanced approach would focus on eliminating the underlying interconnecting barriers that face people in getting nominated for elected office and conducting successful campaigns. Some obstacles are in the system itself. So, for example, women fare better under proportional representation than they do in the first-past-the-post system, and that's been highlighted by the World Economic Forum. At the last local government election, 98 per cent of the candidates were white, 94 per cent were heterosexual and 34 per cent were women. After the election, only 26 per cent of councillors were women. Further again, disabled people are significantly disadvantaged from standing for office as some may not be able to knock the doors in the same way that some Members here and I can. 

Another deterrent for people who want to stand in local government elections is the abuse that people can get on social media. I'm aware that many Members in this Chamber will have experienced this sort of abuse, so we know all too well the kind of effect that that can have. I know of some incredibly talented people who would make very good local representatives, but because of the lack of support and protection for individuals at a local level as well as in the social media world, they are entirely put off. If we want the best representatives, we have to help and encourage them. Therefore, I welcome the recommendation made by this report that the Government must press the UK to ensure strong and robust legislation to tackle social media abuse, bullying and harassment.

We can't escape the fact that change needs to start at the top and we need Government to lead by example. Of Welsh Government appointments between October 2017 and March 2019, all 170 appointments were white. Government should be leading by example. There's a long way to go before we achieve a true and equally represented society, but I hope that the Government will see this opportunity as a start, take this report seriously, and enact all of its recommendations. 

Can I just begin by commending the report—I think it's a good report—and the work that committee members and colleagues did, and the work of the Chair and, of course, the clerks and the support team as well?

One of the things that leaps out from this report, and it's echoed in the comments that have just been made, is the background introduction where it says that previous analysis by a group on diversity in local government established by the Welsh Government, 'On Balance: Diversifying Democracy in Local Government in Wales', noted that the profile of councillors in Wales is predominantly white, male with an average age of about 60. I think that's me. We're not all bad, by the way, but the problem is when we all look like me. [Interruption.] That's right. Most of them look like me. We can be quite good—. Nobody would criticize the late Paul Flynn, who passed away recently in his 80s and was still a highly active Member for Newport. So, there is place for octogenarians as well. But, the problem is, when you've got the majority that are white and male and around 60 years of age, it is distinctly off-putting to encourage diversity.

So, we do need to do this, and I think this report helps us along the way because it looks at practical steps by which we can do it. I welcome the fact that the Government has accepted the vast majority of them and a couple in principle as well. Let me just turn to some of these. First of all, I think it's very, very welcome, on recommendation 20, that the Government has accepted our recommendation about extending the sunset clause in the Sex Discrimination (Election Candidates) Act 2002 until 2050 to allow the continuation of all-women shortlists. I know all-women shortlists are controversial, they're not everybody's cup of tea, but they've been a necessary tool actually in extending diversity within representation. So, we still do need that in place there. We need other measures as well, but that needs to be there. 

I welcome the fact as well that it's accepted as a priority that the Welsh Government should establish an access to elected office fund to assist disabled individuals run for elected office. I have friends who would benefit directly from that but at the moment feel that there is a barrier to them running because of the additional barriers that are put on them because of the disabilities that they face. And on the possibility of extending such a fund to other under-represented groups, I think it's highly welcome that the Government have taken that on board as well.

Recommendation 18 was the one around mock Assembly elections at the same time that we have our elections. Now, I appreciate what the Government has said, which is that there was a mainstreaming of this, that there will be a great deal of mock elections in schools and other ways of encouraging awareness and understanding about the electoral process, but there is, as the Chair has said, a real opportunity here, once in an electoral cycle, to excite young people about what we do here. Today, we had members of the Youth Parliament here sitting behind us; there was a different buzz within the Chamber. It would be great to capitalise on that buzz around the Assembly elections with young people directly. So, we're not saying 'instead of'—keep on doing all the other wonderful work, but actually add to it. Have a look at this. Go back and have a look at that recommendation, because I think it is a worthwhile suggestion there.

Let me just turn to a couple of others here. The issues around technology: I'm glad the Government has accepted those, because, certainly, not only as we look at increasing diversity in the workforce, but also, I have to say, if we're looking at more modern ways of communication and also the decarbonisation agenda that we're very strong on as well, we should be exploring other opportunities that don't drag everybody in for every single meeting from the far outlying places of Powys, Ceredigion, or even Ogmore, quite frankly, and saying we should look at alternative ways to use technology. So I'm glad the Government has accepted those recommendations. 

And also, on the recommendations around job sharing, let me say that I'm very, very pleased that there's been an outright acceptance of the issue of job sharing with executive members. I was probably one of the most strident members of the committee who said that the same thing should definitely apply to the election of individual members when they stand for election. And, of course, I know there are myriad objections, such as that they'll just outcompete each other and that if you've got two people sharing a job, they'll strive to outdo each other. Well, we have that in multimember wards already. There are ways to do this, by agreement. And frankly, some of those people who face some of the barriers, such as disability, who might not feel that they want to commit to a full-time job as a councillor, might well say to me or somebody else in the future, 'Huw, I quite fancy doing a job share with you. If we can share the load, with your experience, with me coming in new, with the barriers that I face, we will do this.' So I welcome it's accepted in principle, but I'm glad that you're going to look at that. But I think we can go further.

This is a great report that I think will push the agenda on and will help the Government, and I thank the Chair for the way that he's chaired this as well and sought a real consensus around these issues. And I particularly thank the witnesses. They won't be pleased with everything within it, or they'll say we've missed some elements, but I think it's a significant step forward and I'm glad the Government has accepted the majority of the recommendations. 

I agree with what has been said by all Members who have spoken so far, and particularly Helen Mary. I agree that we as political parties have a duty to ensure that the candidates parties put up endeavour to reflect the diversity of the communities they're hoping to serve.

I was very proud on Saturday night to see our new Cardiff mayor on stage, on a world stage, for Cardiff Singer of the World, there to welcome the winner and the runners up. That was a great moment for diversity, because Dan De'Ath is—not only did he have the gold chain around him, but he's 6 ft 5 in, so you couldn't miss the fact that he is our first black mayor. So, that is a great role model for future people from the BAME community who think that becoming a councillor might be for them. 

But it's a really complicated issue. I agree absolutely with Leanne; we need to do all we can to tackle homophobia, sexism, racism and discrimination against people with disabilities, but it's pretty complicated when you look at the detail. So, why is it that, for example, in Carmarthenshire, they have quite a good balance of female councillors, but in the next-door community of Ceredigion, there are hardly any women who are councillors? And so it's a much more complicated thing than just ensuring that we have this commitment.

I know that one of the issues that arises is what time councils meet, because I think the urban councils of Cardiff, Newport, Swansea and Wrexham all meet at approximately 4.30 p.m. or 5 o'clock in the evening, which suits people who have a job and then can just get permission to leave early on the monthly meeting of the council day. But I can see how people who are in their late 60s, who may have to travel for an hour to get to the venue for the council meeting, may be resistant to meeting in the evenings, because it means travelling in the dark during the winter, and if you're an older representative that can be quite challenging. So, I think there are complexities to this that are not easy to resolve.

I think that our recommendation 1 about allowing remote participation in meetings is really important, particularly for people who may have last-minute caring responsibilities, where childcare has broken down, or where there are huge distances to be travelled. Why would you want to travel for two hours in order to take part in a meeting that was only one hour? You know, that is too great an effort required for what may be an important decision but can easily be taken by a committee member down the line.

I think one of the things that struck me most, which I think I have spoken about in the Chamber before, was that nearly a year ago, I met a group of councillors from three county organisations in Aberystwyth, and I was humbled by the level of dedication of these people, but also shocked that they were doing things that I didn't think they should be expected to do. It's very difficult if you represent a rural community, because everybody will know where you live just because everybody knows everybody. But I thought it was unreasonable that, on some occasions, individuals were being asked to answer the door at seven in the morning and at 10 o'clock at night. You know, that is unreasonable and I think that the officers of those councils should have firmly said, 'Do not do this. It will burn you out. You have to have a life as well.' There was one individual who was even using all his holidays to maintain his full-time job and also do his council responsibilities. I don't think anybody should be doing that. I think that is seriously unwise, and I think that we have to ensure that the payment that is made should allow people to reduce their working hours in order to reflect the fact that being a councillor is quite a responsible job.

Would you agree with me, Jenny Rathbone, that there's also a role for companies that are big enough and public bodies to revert to the old practice of giving people public responsibility leave to be local authority members or to be magistrates? I know some organisations do still do it, but it's a practice that seems to have gone out of fashion, if you like. And while you can't expect a small, local company to do it, I think the big institutions ought to be enabling their staff to participate. 

Yes, I think it's perfectly possible for large companies to have some designated days set aside for public duties and that doesn't need to be to be a council representative, it could be to be on a governing body of a school or to work in a voluntary organisation, advising them on how to do their bookkeeping or whatever it might be. I think a lot of business in the community does support that sort of activity, but I think it's unreasonable for a small company, with maybe five employees, to let somebody go. I just don't think that is possible. But I think that we need to really press ahead with—.

I think one of the other issues I don't think other Members have mentioned is recommendation 13, which is to ensure that the care allowances that people should be entitled to claim if they've got responsibilities for an elderly or disabled member of the family or they've got small children, I don't think that it should have to be reported that X, Y, Z individual has claimed this amount. This should just be something that's reported by the council as one of the expenses, with the obvious checks and balances that the individual who's claiming this allowance has to be, obviously, present at the meeting they're claiming for. 

Can you wind up, please? 

But that can be done behind the scenes; it doesn't need to be done by making those people subject to criticism. 

I'd like to thank the committee for their report and the excellent work of the Chair and the committee. The fact that our democracy doesn’t reflect our demography is a matter that should deeply concern us all. How can we possibly hope to increase engagement in the democratic process if large sections of the electorate feel they are not represented? At the last council elections, only 42 per cent of the electorate bothered to vote. And it's not just apathy; it's reflective of disengagement with the political process. People are turned off politics and as a result are less likely to vote, let alone stand for political office.

The recent Hansard Society 'Audit of Political Engagement', the latest in a 15-year audit looking at public opinion about politics, our political system and the health of our democracy, found that opinions about politics were at their lowest level ever, much lower than in the aftermath of the MPs' expenses scandal. Three quarters of the British public say our systems of Government need quite a lot or a great deal of improvement. Fifty per cent say that the main parties and politicians don't care about people like them, and 75 per cent say that the main political parties are so divided that they cannot serve the best interests of the country. So, people have more faith in the military and the judiciary to act in the best interests of the nation.

With this level of distrust in politics, how can we hope to encourage larger numbers of women, black and minority ethnic communities, people with disabilities and members of the LGBT community to stand as candidates? There's much ongoing work and support needed to encourage under-represented groups to enter politics and stand in winnable seats; it's of the utmost importance.

While I welcome many of the measures outlined by the committee in its recommendations, as they will make it easier for people from under-represented groups to serve as councillors, we are fighting an uphill battle unless we restore faith in our political systems. And that is something that we all have to work on. So, from community councillors to Members of Parliament, we must show that we are here to work for our constituents, not to score cheap party-political shots off each other. We must show the electorate that we are here to carry out their wishes, that they are our masters and not the other way around.

And we have to act like grown-ups, because, sometimes, there is hate and vitriol that exists in political discourse that serves no purpose other than—

Will you take an intervention?

Yes, certainly.

Your party leader stood in front of a poster that was reminiscent of Nazi propaganda, and you are talking about hate in politics. I can't put the two together—

Can I just say something to you? Have I ever turned around and made a personal attack on anyone here?

I'm asking you about your party leader.

Let me ask you something. You stood up and made a political point against one of our members here, and she told you outside that you hadn't listened to the full length of the sentence before you stood up and made a comment in front of the whole Chamber—

Will you address the point I made?

—and that wasn't right. Have you written to the political leader—

No, no. You can't have a backwards and forwards. Either respond to the intervention by the Member or move on.

I haven't looked at it. I haven't looked at what you're talking about—

Nigel Farage and the poster in the Brexit—

You just said the 'political leader', and I consider my leader here to be Mark Reckless, I'm sorry.

So, it's not Nigel Farage then?

Well, he is our party leader—

Yes, he is.

But he's not in the Assembly, is he? 

No, no. Either answer the intervention or move on.

I'm moving on, yes. So, we must show the electorate that we are here to carry out their wishes, that they are our masters and not the other way around. And we have to act like grown-ups, as I've just said. The hate and vitriol that exists far too often in political discourse serves no purpose other than to further disillusionment in politics.

If politicians can't act like responsible, reasonable adults and treat each other with respect, how can we ever expect the electorate to support us or even encourage them to become politicians themselves? So, it's little wonder that people are turned off by politics and politicians. However, today, we saw members of the Youth Parliament engaging positively on many political issues and talking to us about their future work. So, this was a positive step in encouraging young people into politics. The Chair has mentioned job sharing, which obviously, again, is a positive step to be looked into more.

At the last Assembly election, fewer than half the people of Wales bothered to vote; in some seats, just over a third of eligible voters actually cast their ballot. And last year we celebrated the centenary of universal suffrage, but what would Emmeline Pankhurst think about the levels of disengagement we are seeing today?

We need to make politics more inclusive, and in order to do that, we have to make it more respectable and respected. And poverty in our communities is, again, a barrier and often enhances inequality. So, the answer to more women in politics is to make politics more attractive to women, and the same can be said for all other under-represented groups. Online bullying is an obstacle to encouraging women into politics, and we must ensure that people have the confidence to deal with this positively. So, we need to make it more appealing for people to become councillors, AMs or MPs, and only then can we truly achieve diversity in politics.

Thank you. Can I now call the Deputy Minister for Housing and Local Government, Hannah Blythyn?

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Firstly, I'd like to thank the committee for their valuable and important work in this area, and I'd also place on record both my thanks and that of the Minister for Housing and Local Government to the numerous organisations and individuals who have contributed in this. We welcome the work of the committee and we'll be voting in favour today.

The Welsh Government is committed to increasing diversity within elected office, working to enable and empower people who want to put themselves forward for election to serve their communities. We know that when our politics reflects our people, our communities and our country are all the better for it. So, working with partners to identify and break down barriers, both in terms of perception and in a more practical sense, and the Chair touched on those practical suggestions that are in the report, which I'll come to shortly.

But I'd first like to touch on perception, both in what political office is and who it's for and who is a politician. Leanne Wood talked about the traditional stereotype of what people see of what a politician is, and I hesitate to say 'pale and male' with Huw standing so close to me, but don't worry, we definitely weren't saying you were stale. But in all seriousness, though, when I was growing up, I never thought I'd be a politician because a politician didn't look like me, he wasn't someone like me and it wasn't something that I ever thought I could do. But actually I was thinking about it recently and I think I may have reached that point, Dirprwy Lywydd, when I've matched the stereotype as I'm approaching middle age, I'm white and I now have a wife.

But in all seriousness, we know that lived experience means that we can serve our communities with authenticity, and the strongest way to make sure our voice and our views of all parts of our communities and our society are represented in the discussion and debate that takes place within our democracy, both within our communities and within our country. In short, a demographic deficit can shape a democratic deficit and lead to a disconnection with our decision making and our democratic process.

But as we've heard today, people can only embark on the journey to become an elected Member if they are aware of what an elected Member is, what they do and how they do it. The Chair has touched on the lack of information out there for people in terms of actually how they could become a councillor and what that involved. So, we need to ensure we all maximise all opportunities to raise awareness of the role and also the value of councillors. We've all heard those negative perceptions and stereotypes of, actually, a councillor who doesn't do anything, they don't work hard, but we all know that across our communities and within this Chamber, people here might be hearing from different backgrounds with a different ideology, but the majority of us want to do our best to serve our communities.

So, during the coming months, we will work with partners to identify key components of our campaign to raise the profile of councillors, the key contributions they make to society and the difference they make to their neighbours and wider communities. We will look to capitalise on this and promote and raise awareness of the practical contributions people have made on the ground and in local areas. And key to any campaign will be to challenge the increasing negativity around politics. But it's important that we address this through a partnership approach.

But as I said, we don't need to just challenge the perception, we have to take action to remove the practical barriers to participation, both at the outset and to enable ongoing involvement. This involves ensuring appropriate support systems are in place in terms of training and development, emotional support and a mechanism to safeguard well-being. There's already a wide range of training and development opportunities available for councillors, ranging from induction programmes to leadership programmes, but as we've heard today, we can always do more and we can build on this. We'll be looking at what we might do to increase and maximise the opportunities, and we're keen to work with others to identify additional areas for attention.

Will the Minister give way? 

Yes, sure. 

I wonder, in so doing, would the Minister have a look at something that was raised by me on the committee a couple of times—the excellent example provided by Bridgend County Borough Council who, on a non-political, non-partisan basis, did a tremendous promotional campaign about standing as a councillor if you've never thought of it, and then went through extensive training with people about what that meant, what it entailed, how you could overcome obstacles? It wasn't for everybody—some people said, 'Thank you very much but I'm not interested'—but it brought in a whole new batch of people that were not the normal people, some of whom were not aligned politically in any way. So, have a look at those when you're thinking about working in partnership. 

Yes, absolutely, and if any Members have any suggestions or examples of best practice that can then be rolled out across councils, across the community or on a nationwide scale, then I'm sure both I and the Minister would be very happy to hear about that. Like you said, even if some people decide it isn't for them, we've also increased awareness of the role of the council in the community anyway. And also, likewise, we need to consider how we better support people who perhaps weren't successful in elections, and they've already shown that interest in wanting to get involved in local politics and the local community. And we've actually seen through the work we've done and through the committee's evidence that perhaps some people have then gone on to use those transferrable skills, perhaps as school governors and in other roles in the community. So, it's actually how we continue that support, perhaps, in the future, so people want to put themselves forward again. And it's really important that we make sure people don't become disinterested through that lack of success—most people don't get elected at the first attempt—so actually making sure we are there to support people and take them through that process.

This report also focuses on a number of important issues, including remote attendance, job-share arrangements and support to assist people with disabilities to run for elected office. These are areas where work is already under way, but we can always build on this work. So, in the forthcoming local government elections (Wales) Bill, we intend to amend the remote attendance sections of the Local Government (Wales) Measure 2011 to include provisions to facilitate job-sharing arrangements for members of council executives and leaders. We'll obviously look to things where it's happened—in Swansea—and actually where we can learn from other initiatives as well, as I think Helen Mary said as well. It will include a duty on political group leaders to promote appropriate standards of behaviour, and require local authorities to publish the official address of its elected members, rather than their home address. So, local authorities would need to provide an official office address for members to use on publicity. Members raised the challenge of the rise in online abuse that politicians across the piece unfortunately experience—I know many of us in the Chamber have experienced that ourselves—and I understand that the Minister for Housing and Local Government has just today been in touch with the UK Government, actually, on how we can work to tackle online abuse with social media companies, because I think we're all aware this is something that really needs to be tackled head on and dealt with, because nobody deserves to have that. People make many personal sacrifices by putting themselves forward to serve their community and, actually, we need to respect each other as fellow human beings for what we do as well. In line with this, we will also legislate to remove the need to publish a candidate's address on the ballot paper. Lots of people will know where their local councillor lives, but I think that's extra security in making sure it's not then publicly available online as well, to give people that peace of mind where we can.

We will also write to the UK Government about enacting section 106 of the Equality Act 2010, as proposed in the report, and officials have contacted the Information Commissioner's Office to seek a view on the proposed approach to the publication of reimbursement if costs occur. We are committed to working on delivering an access to an elected office fund for Wales, and that work is ongoing with officials across Government and also with my colleague, the Deputy Minister here.

We should also acknowledge that measures have already been taken to support diversity. Wales was the first in the UK to make legislative provision for family absence for elected members to address some of the barriers to participation in local government for councillors who may have family responsibilities. We do intend to update these arrangements in the local government elections Bill to extend the provisions to those adopting, and we also intend to make it easier to update the absence arrangements as the policy in this area develops.   

Dirprwy Lywydd, in closing I just want to reiterate again how we welcome this important work of the committee and all involved, and look forward to working together to take this forward in the future. I think we can all agree that we have taken steps in the right direction, but it's time to step up our work in this area for all of our people, our community and our democracy. Diolch yn fawr.

Thank you. Can I call on John Griffiths to reply to the debate?

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. And may I thank all Members for taking part in the debate? It's good to see, I think, that there's quite a strong sense of consensus in terms of where we are and where we need to go. As was said, the Assembly here, actually, is a pretty good example of how progress can be made and has been made. Although, as we know, there is further work for us to do as well. But, nonetheless, we've got a reasonably good story to tell, which I think puts us in quite a strong position when making recommendations and advising others.

I, like Huw, plead guilty to being in the male, white and around 60 years of age demographic. [Laughter.] There's not much we can do about that, but we can certainly work towards greater diversity in general. What Huw said about Paul Flynn I think is very true—that Paul was very strong in arguing for the octogenarian demographic and greater representation for that age group at all levels of politics, but, certainly, we want to see as much diversity as possible at all levels of government in Wales, and we will work towards that, as a committee, and work with the Government here and local authorities in Wales.

I think Jenny Rathbone made a powerful point in terms of the Cardiff mayor being from an ethnic minority and being on that international platform in the BBC Cardiff Singer of the World competition—how powerful role models can be, and we really shouldn't underestimate that, and the more such role models we have, the better.

It was an interesting point that Leanne raised, I think, about proportional representation and how women tend to do better under those systems. We're not on the verge of any great change in electoral systems in Wales, but it is instructive to look at how particular systems can help or hinder that greater diversity that we want to see. It was also useful, I think, for Leanne to talk about austerity, because we do need to understand the times that we live in and what that means for these efforts to bring about greater diversity, and trying to manage reducing budgets and all that brings isn't a very attractive proposition for any of us. Under-represented groups tend to be struggling with austerity to a greater extent than others and that doesn't help either.

In terms of the politics of the time, I think what Caroline Jones said was very true in terms of, if we want people to engage with politics, the fact that politics is in the lowest level of public esteem ever is not helpful. Brexit and the referendum has been absolutely poisonous to this, in my view, because the referendum split the population down the middle, political parties are split, and UK Government and Westminster are in a state of disarray and chaos—at a standstill. None of that is a very attractive advert for getting involved in politics, is it?

Will you take an intervention?

I will.

In that regard, do you believe that the media also has a very important elemental and pivotal role in this in terms of how politics, politicians and civil society are portrayed?

Yes, I do. Hannah Blythyn talked about perceptions and how important they are, and that's undoubtedly true, and I'm very pleased that the Welsh Government is working with the Welsh Local Government Association to take forward awareness-raising and communication campaigns, and that answers, to some extent, the point Helen Mary made about civic duty, because I think it would address that as well. 

Dirprwy Lywydd, I can see that my time is extremely limited, but I must say that I do think there was an air of unreality in terms of what Caroline Jones said. You cannot distance yourself, as an elected Member, from the party that you are a Member of, or, indeed, a party that you were a Member of. And what we hear about betrayal and selling out people and the division and hostility that's created with that rhetoric and those campaigns—again, that's absolutely poisonous to trying to get the engagement and, indeed, the diversity, particularly, that we all want to see.

Thank you very much. The proposal is to note the committee's report. Does any Member object? No. Therefore, the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.