Questions Without Notice from Party Spokespeople

1. Questions to the Minister for Education – in the Senedd at 1:38 pm on 3 July 2019.

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Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 1:38, 3 July 2019

(Translated)

Questions now from party spokespeople. The Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Bethan Sayed.

Photo of Bethan Sayed Bethan Sayed Plaid Cymru

I'm sure you'll be aware of the serious allegations of racism levelled at Cardiff University from a number of BME students in the last few days. I and, I'm sure, many others in this Chamber have received a report of testimony about racism, and it's shocking actually to read it. And also a Western Mail report outlines concerning reports experienced by an outgoing vice-president. My office has met with a group of BME students from the university who all used the term, and I quote, 'institutional racism' in the description of the university. I'm sure that many people may have read the report, but after the 'Anaphylaxis' show, BME students complained and were met with abuse, and some BME staff also faced abuse at a medical school party. Students chanted 'anaphylaxis' to the BME students. 

Now, I understand the role of universities entirely, but could you give assurances to students who have concerns and have had to deal with racism, and outline what actions you'll be taking with Cardiff University and with the students who have raised these particular concerns?

Photo of Kirsty Williams Kirsty Williams Liberal Democrat 1:40, 3 July 2019

Can I thank the Member for raising this very important issue? There is no place for racism anywhere in the Welsh education system, whether that be in our schools, our colleges and our universities. We have had discussions as a Government with the university and with the students union involved, and I understand that there is ongoing dialogue between them both. All universities have to have strategic equality plans setting out how they will ensure equality of opportunity for students with protected characteristics, and these plans indicate the processes and the procedures that should be in place for institutions to tackle individual incidents of racial harassment or bullying or abuse, and clearly we will be keeping a very close eye on the development of those talks that are ongoing through the university and the union.

Photo of Bethan Sayed Bethan Sayed Plaid Cymru

Thank you very much for that response. I'm glad you'll be keeping a keen eye on what's happening with the university. I know that Cardiff has insisted it is taking action and has accepted the recommendations of the report looking into this particular matter, and today, for the record, the vice-chancellor has written to me outlining some of those responses, which I am grateful for. But the trouble is that some students do not believe that, institutionally, Cardiff has been willing to contend seriously enough with racism or respond with enough gravity to reports and recommended actions. They also believe there is a wider cultural problem, particularly in certain schools of the university. So, I don't want to take away from many of the positive experiences that students from all backgrounds and cultures will have at this university, and I note that the satisfaction levels are overall high, but when there are minority groups who clearly feel that those experiences have not been dealt with appropriately, do you agree that this is a huge area of concern, and what more can you potentially do to stop these types of incidents happening again in the future?

Photo of Kirsty Williams Kirsty Williams Liberal Democrat 1:42, 3 July 2019

Well, you're absolutely correct in saying that these are serious allegations that have been made, and my expectation is that the university will deal with them promptly, coherently and completely, and address any issues of individual behaviour or, more importantly perhaps, to address the entire culture of an individual department or school or the university as a whole. As I said, we take this very seriously. We are in touch with the university to understand what actions they are taking, and I would urge anybody that feels they have been subject to inappropriate behaviour of any kind to ensure that they come forward to give of that testimony so that we can have a full picture of what is going on. We also understand that incidents of this kind may potentially put people off from studying at university, and therefore all universities have fee and access plans that set out how they will support equality of opportunity for groups that are under-represented in HE—and BAME communities are often very much under-represented—to ensure that they have a very positive experience in higher education, and we have also made over £2 million available via HEFCW this year to support universities to develop their responses to supporting students with mental health issues, which potentially could arise out of any incidents of bullying of this kind.

Photo of Bethan Sayed Bethan Sayed Plaid Cymru 1:43, 3 July 2019

Thank you for that answer. Your answer in relation to mental health leads me on seamlessly to my last question, and I acknowledge and thank you for the money that you've put into student mental health support. But my question is about what investment you may or may not be putting into the support for lecturing staff also. I've read reports in the last few days, and over the past few years, about workload issues at many universities, and we've seen one particular university where there's been a rise in antidepressants because of workload pressure, and we did see, unfortunately, a suicide, partly—I wouldn't say entirely—attributed to workload problems. Could you give us an indication as to what discussions you've had with the university sector and with trade unions, who have taken action in many instances about the fact that they too feel the stress, and they too have those mental health issues that they wish to deal with? How can you as Minister properly help them in this regard?

Photo of Kirsty Williams Kirsty Williams Liberal Democrat 1:44, 3 July 2019

What's important to recognise is that the investment that's been made available to support better mental health in our higher education sector is not simply just to be used for students. It is actually to replicate, in the same way as we're trying to develop a whole-school approach to mental health, which affects both children and professional staff—that the same is done in our universities and colleges also. What we do know is that, often, staff who are suffering episodes of poor mental health, they can transfer that, those feelings, onto their students. So, actually, we need to tackle this in the round, both from staff and faculty.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 1:45, 3 July 2019

(Translated)

Conservative spokesperson, Mohammad Asghar.

Photo of Mohammad Asghar Mohammad Asghar Conservative

Thank you, Presiding Officer. Minister, good quality careers advice is essential to help students access the jobs and skills that are best qualified for them. But concerns have been expressed about the quality and availability of careers advice, citing the shortage of trained careers advisers and a lack of knowledge of apprenticeships and vocational training by school staff. What are you doing, Minister, to improve careers advice in Wales, please?

Photo of Kirsty Williams Kirsty Williams Liberal Democrat

Well, what we've done, Oscar, after a period in which we were not able to commission Careers Wales to be providing a service in schools, we have those trained careers advisers back in our school settings, and, more importantly, we're currently running a Gatsby pilot in the Rhondda Cynon Taf area to explore best practice. The results of that pilot will help us develop an even better careers service for children and young people going forward. It's really, really important that children at a relatively young age have that support to be able to make good choices and informed choices about what they do next in their educational career.

Photo of Mohammad Asghar Mohammad Asghar Conservative 1:46, 3 July 2019

Thank you very much, Minister, for the reply. I hope you roll out this pilot scheme, it is better. Inspectors already consider school careers advice provision when making judgments. However, last year, a committee of MPs in Westminster said that schools should be specifically rated by Ofsted on the quality of their careers advice. This will ensure pupils are getting all the information they need to become future scientists and engineers. What consideration has the Minister given to allow Estyn to give schools in Wales a rating that indicates the quality of advice provided in school?

Photo of Kirsty Williams Kirsty Williams Liberal Democrat 1:47, 3 July 2019

I'm sure the Member is aware of the work that is currently being undertaken by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, Estyn and individual schools to develop a self-evaluation toolkit, which will actually help us identify best practice in schools, not just in terms of academic achievements, but also in areas outside formal qualifications. Because we expect schools, yes, to help children pass their exams, but we also expect schools to do many other things when children are in their care, and that work is ongoing. 

Photo of Mohammad Asghar Mohammad Asghar Conservative

Close ties between schools, further education colleges and employers are a major factor in helping young people achieve their aspirations. Minister, what actions are you taking in providing colleges and employers with greater accessibility to school careers guidance services to ensure young people are provided with the information they require to reach their full career potential? Thank you.

Photo of Kirsty Williams Kirsty Williams Liberal Democrat 1:48, 3 July 2019

I'm sure the Member will be delighted that, just prior to coming to the Chamber this afternoon, I was able to announce in our Seren event that the Seren foundation programme and the principles of Seren, which currently kick in for children after they've done their GCSEs, will now be rolling out for students from year 8. Some of the innovative projects that have already been undertaken in the pilot are working with manufacturing companies, engineers, scientists to expose even younger children to the entire range of opportunities that the wider world has to offer them, and I'm very grateful to the businesses, FE colleges and universities that have been so heavily involved in developing the programme, and I look forward to that being rolled out across the whole of Wales.