Thank you to the Chair for leading on this agenda. I found this piece of work very interesting, for us to try and shape the future of Transport for Wales, considering it's such a youthful organisation. And while we did find that there had been some teething problems—notably in our other report with regard to the autumn dysfunction—we know that time will tell how engaged and how positive a relationship Transport for Wales can develop, not only with us but with the wider public. So, I think that's all to be seen for the future. 

I think what's integral to us as politicians is to understand exactly what Transport for Wales and its role will be. There was some—I don't want to use the words 'dispute' or 'confusion' about who was ultimately responsible. When I asked Ken Skates, 'Is it you?', he said 'Yes'; in previous sessions, it may not have been as clear, when we were probing Transport for Wales as to who was ultimately responsible for any failings or for any misgivings in the system. So, whatever happens in terms of the structure, we have to know that the Government will be ultimately responsible for what happens, or if it's not, that those delineations of power and abdication of power is clear for all to see, so that we know and the public knows, more importantly, that if something goes wrong, if they want to complain, if they want to get compensation, they know exactly where to go. And, as yet, I'm not sure that we know what the answer is. 

For example, we've got the joint transport authorities. Are we going to have a regional system, or are we going to have a national system, or are we going to have both? In my gut, and I'm not speaking on behalf of everybody yet, because we've yet to discuss it as a party, I would say that, actually, do we need to have two different systems? Can we not have one system that people will be able to go to and that's clear? The White Paper may be able to give us some more answers on that. 

I did find it a bit ironic and a bit sad to see that the trade unions had to raise with us the fact that some of the trade unions were not being engaged at all by Transport for Wales, and that we had to raise it with them in these committee sessions to say to them, 'Look, if you are going to be TUPE-ing staff over, if you are going to be transferring people to Transport for Wales from other bodies, then they need to be clear about what's happening and they also have to have a role on that board.' I'm glad to see, following on from those public concerns, that Transport for Wales has now engaged with all the trade unions. I think it was PCS that had the biggest concern at the time, but they are now part of that conversation. But it shouldn't be an afterthought; they should be there from the start as part of the social partnership, and we shouldn't be seeing that happening again here in Wales. 

Ultimately, I think any governance system has to be robust enough to be assured that what's being delivered for the public is sufficient and strong. And I think that's where, potentially, things need to improve. In our report, we talk about Transport for Wales being more reactive rather than proactive: people didn't know about what was happening, they didn't know who was running the service anymore, they couldn't find information on the website and they didn't know about plans for integrated ticketing. So, what I would say is that Transport for Wales needs to have a wide-scale Wales campaign to engage with the public about what they want to see happening and how. If Transport for Wales is going to go into buses and to other modes of transport, then how can the public be used as part of that conversation, and not just be told what is going to happen? That's now what they want to see happening in all of this.

One other comment I think we did pick up on in this inquiry, which, perhaps, the Deputy Minister will respond to, was the lack of expertise from those in the rail industry on the board. I appreciate you can't just have rail geeks and rail anoraks on the board—it can't just be those people, as passionate as they are—it has to be inclusive of all society. But if you don't have any of them with those skills, then there is a bit of a problem, is there not? I appreciate that specialism because I'm not a rail specialist—I wouldn't be able to do that work—so please can we see how they can be involved, and how we can use the agenda of climate change that we're all talking about at the moment to focus Transport for Wales's work on looking at how they can integrate different modes of transport into their work, but also encourage people out of their cars. 

I'd like to thank the committee team for all the hard work they've done in supporting this work, but I think this is the beginning of our scrutiny of Transport for Wales, and certainly not the end.