I very much accept the point that the Member makes, but obviously we need to make the case as well to the people of Wales that we require more Members in this place.

Now, it's the view of my colleagues and I that any increase in the number of Assembly Members must be funded via savings arising from a reduction in the overall number of elected representatives in Wales. I note that the 'A Parliament that Works for Wales' report gives us detailed costings of the additional recurrent annual costs that could arise from an additional 20 or 30 Assembly Members. And I fully accept that these costs should be considered in the broader context of democratic representation in Wales. As a consequence of Brexit, there will no longer be Welsh MEPs, which I understand is the equivalent of funding 24 Assembly Members. I therefore accept and agree that it is perfectly feasible to increase the number of AMs at no extra cost to the taxpayer, but more work needs to be done to persuade the people of Wales that this is the right thing to do.

Our amendment also calls for any additional Assembly Members to be elected on a no less proportional basis than is currently the case, and I accept that there will be a range of views across this Chamber on how Members should be elected. And that is probably the main sticking point to actually increasing the number of Assembly Members amongst politicians, because it is difficult at the moment to see how parties will agree on what electoral system should be used in electing more Members going forward. Therefore, we on this side of the Chamber believe that the Assembly Commission, in conjunction with political parties, must look at its current arrangements and establish a system that elects Members in a way that carries the support of the people it serves.

Dirprwy Lywydd, my colleagues and I look forward to engaging in a dialogue with the people of Wales that explains the need to increase the capacity of this institution, and we are happy to work with the Commission and all parties to look at ways in which we can deliver future electoral arrangements that will result in increasing the effectiveness of the Assembly's operations. It's absolutely crucial that this dialogue takes place on a much bigger scale than is currently the case, because in many communities across Wales there is still very little understanding of the need to increase the number of Assembly Members. The devolution journey has continued to deliver more and more power to this institution and closer decision making has, I believe, on the whole, been a benefit to the people of Wales. But we are now at a crossroads, and I fully accept the Assembly needs additional Members to function effectively, but, fundamentally, it must come at a cost that's palatable to the people of Wales and delivered in a voting system that is supported by the people of Wales, and I, therefore, urge Members to support our amendment.