Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 6:40 pm on 10 July 2019.
I actually hadn't said that, but I was just about to. [Laughter.] I do not believe—. I recognise what you're saying, Joyce, and I recognise, of course, why you're saying it, but I do not believe that regional representation is real representation, I'll be absolutely clear about that. I do not believe—[Interruption.] I don't believe it. I'm afraid I don't believe it. And do you know what? I think most people in Wales agree with me. It might not be a popular or a comfortable thing to say in this Chamber, but I think most people in Wales agree with me.
So, let me say this: I believe that we do need a system of electoral reform that provides for equality of membership of this place. I believe that we need a system of electoral reform that does hard-wire proportionality into the system. One of the foundations of this form of devolved Government was that of proportional representation. I do not believe that we should, in any way, move away from that founding principle of this Welsh democracy. I believe that proportional representation has to be hard-wired into our constitutional settlement, and that is why I support the single transferable vote as a means of representing everybody in Wales equally, across this Chamber and across this country. And we need to do that in an intelligent way.
I recognise the power of the argument that's been made by my colleagues in the Labour Party over this matter, and I recognise the importance of an electoral mandate. I think that is an important matter and it can't be simply dismissed. I'm afraid the wishes of the people of this country can't be dismissed as an inconvenience. I feel the frustration of those who have seen and watched commissions come and go, reports written and published, debates taking place and then put away because there isn't the political courage to take those decisions and to make those changes. I believe that four Wales Acts in 20 years is not a triumph of parliamentary deliberation or democracy. It is time for a stable settlement in this country. It is time for a settlement that reflects the needs of the people of Wales. I have argued time and time again—in this place and, as a Minister, I argued it from the position of the Welsh Government—that we need to see devolved Government in Wales that is fit for purpose. I've argued for the devolution of policing and criminal justice, I've argued for the devolution of those powers that enable this place to function properly and to deliver for the people of Wales. But I will also argue that this place needs to change as well, that this place has to function, in a way that Adam Price and others have, in fact, argued. But what I will say to Plaid Cymru this afternoon, and I'll finish on this point: withdraw this motion this afternoon. Do not divide this place on this matter. Look for unity. Look for consensus. Look for unity of purpose. The people of Wales will not—