Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 4:20 pm on 16 July 2019.
I'm a bit confused in relation to the environmental principles and governance legislation. It was touched on earlier. I'm rather disappointed, I think—no, I am; I am disappointed—that the Welsh Government seems reticent or unlikely to pursue distinct legislation on environmental governance for Wales. You seem to suggest that maybe you were looking to the UK Government to do it for you, initially. Of course, that runs counter to what we've been hearing from Government up until now, because we've been told that the environmental policy landscape in Wales is very, very distinct, is very different—the legislation and the duties that we have stemming from the Environment (Wales) Act 2016, from the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015, puts Wales in a very, very different place to the rest of the UK, and particularly to England, in what we require in terms of environmental principles and governance captured in any post-Brexit accountability mechanisms.
Now, of course, we all remember that Natural Resources Wales was created as a bespoke Welsh solution to Welsh needs. Your own Government is currently pursuing an independent planning inspectorate for Wales because of policy divergence between England and Wales that necessitates that distinct Welsh body. My fear is that retrospectively latching Wales onto UK legislation around, or proposals around, the office of environmental protection runs contrary, clearly, to that. I can understand the rationale for a UK-wide governance body, replicating, effectively, what we already have on an EU level—and I've got something to say about that as well, as you can imagine—but I'm not convinced that that kind of approach would be based on a partnership of equals and, of course, it would necessitate all devolved administrations coming to the table. And, from my understanding, there's no appetite for that in Scotland at the moment. So, we're likely to end up with an England-and-Wales body, and RSPB Cymru and other organisations have made it clear in evidence to the environment committee that that would be the worst of all worlds, because, as we've seen in other contexts, their fear is that we'd likely see a concentration of work on where the resources are greatest and, in their words, that is most likely in England. So, do you recognise that risk, if we were to end up with an England-and-Wales body? And will any belated arrangement with England—because, of course, the UK legislation is already well on its journey through Westminster—really respect devolution and existing Welsh law, and is there not a risk that we end up, therefore, with the lowest common denominator?