1. Debate: Brexit and Prorogation of the UK Parliament

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 2:48 pm on 5 September 2019.

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Photo of Carwyn Jones Carwyn Jones Labour 2:48, 5 September 2019

We have, Dirprwy Lywydd, a Prime Minister not elected by the people, one who refused to call an election when it suited him in July and August, who tried to close down the UK Parliament. And one of the reasons why we’re meeting today is because the UK Parliament is being muzzled. A UK Parliament, may I add, that was actually elected in 2017—a year after the referendum. A UK Parliament that was elected after people were asked if they wanted to back Theresa May and a hard-ish Brexit, and the people said ‘no’. There is no evidence, then, that the people want to see a ‘no deal’ Brexit. And, of course, we’re talking about somebody who has expelled some of his most respected MPs, and there are more. We’ve seen some political fratricide in our time, but this morning Jo Johnson took it to another level again.

And he has made claims that are patently false. Yes, we all say things in the Chamber that are based on facts, but they’re based on how we see the world. But you cannot say there has been negotiation with the European Union when it patently is untrue. The Irish Foreign Minister has said it, MEPs have said it, Commissioner Barnier has said it—there is no negotiation taking place. The UK hasn’t come up with any ideas at all as to where to go in the future. The idea that there’s a deal on the table waiting to be agreed in risible and something in which the British people are being deceived on. And anyway, if there was an election on 15 October, what would that mean? There might be a result that was inconclusive. Then what? Boris Johnson’s still Prime Minister, even though he may not even command a majority in Parliament. And if we really think that an election on 15 October will lead to better negotiating on 17 October, we are deluding ourselves. There are not even any negotiations planned for 17 October, because those negotiations are taking place already. So, we know that what he is claiming—that there is a deal about to be made—is untrue. It's completely untrue and it’s driven by a desire to see a ‘no deal’ Brexit and then, when the consequences hit, to blame others—to blame the people who are remainer,  to blame the people who weren’t supportive of a particular form of Brexit. ‘Not our fault, guv’—that’s what the political strategy is here, I’m afraid.

I met Boris Johnson many times when he was mayor of London. He was a very liberal-minded person, very clubbable and somebody who you could have a conversation with—a very different Boris Johnson to the one that I see now. I learned early on, however, that he was pretty much an empty vessel who was filled with ideas by his advisers. When he was mayor of London, he was fortunate enough to surround himself with people who were liberal-minded and who were sensible, and that’s what you heard from him. But now, the contents of the vessel have been replaced by something poisonous and bilious. We now see somebody who’s prepared to sacrifice his own party in order to get what he wants.