9. Debate on the General Principles of the Children (Abolition of Defence of Reasonable Punishment) (Wales) Bill

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 7:42 pm on 17 September 2019.

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Photo of Mark Isherwood Mark Isherwood Conservative 7:42, 17 September 2019

I’m the parent of six, all now responsible and caring adults. I’m a godparent, a grandparent, uncle and great uncle. I haven’t spoken to a single person outside the Cardiff Bay bubble who supports this Bill. As I said when speaking in the 2011 Member debate here on the end of lawful chastisement, section 58 of the Children Act 2004 limited the use of the defence of reasonable punishment so that it could no longer be used when people are charged with offences against a child, such as causing actual bodily harm or cruelty. Quoting the Crown Prosecution Service, I said that

'for minor assaults committed by an adult upon a child that result in injuries such as grazes, scratches, abrasions, minor bruising, swelling, superficial cuts or a black eye, the appropriate charge will normally be ABH for which the defence of "reasonable chastisement” is no longer available. However, if the injury amounts to no more than reddening of the skin, and the injury is transient and trifling…the reasonable chastisement defence remains available’.

As I then concluded, instead of criminalising 

'loving parents who use a smack from time to time, we must recognise the clear difference between smacking and child abuse'.

We heard about, a moment ago, an experienced senior officer with a Welsh police force who said:

‘I’m constrained from speaking out publicly, but I have to do something to try to discourage the Assembly from backing plans to outlaw smacking.’

He said:

'The reasonable chastisement defence only covers the lightest sort of smacking...Removing the defence will remove any discretion we have. It will lead to decent families being traumatised.’

Extensive correspondence received from constituents regarding this has all asked me to oppose this Bill. The rest of my speech is therefore taken entirely from their words, and I quote from them.

'Seven in 10 people oppose the Welsh Government’s smacking Bill. I do not see it to be in the interest of parents, children or anyone else in society to criminalise smacking. Such a measure would send entirely the wrong message to parents struggling to bring up their children. I guess that most of us were smacked as children, not by criminal parents, but by loving, caring parents, who desired only our well-being, safety and a desire to teach us right from wrong. We would not accuse our parents of abuse or reckon they were criminals. In fact, it is those who would call this a criminal offence who are in danger of abusing children and of damaging both their future interests and those of society at large.'