Questions Without Notice from Party Spokespeople

1. Questions to the Minister for Education – in the Senedd at 1:41 pm on 25 September 2019.

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Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 1:41, 25 September 2019

(Translated)

Questions now from party spokespeople, and the Conservatives' spokesperson first—Suzy Davies.

Photo of Suzy Davies Suzy Davies Conservative

Diolch, Llywydd. Minister, last week, the finance Minister made a statement setting out her thoughts on the implications for Wales of the UK Government's 2019 spending round, and in that she reinforced the Government's view that budget spending decisions should be predicated on eight areas of priority. Why isn't school-age education one of those priority areas?

Photo of Kirsty Williams Kirsty Williams Liberal Democrat

What the Minister was referring to are the cross-cutting priority areas that the Government has. One of those includes early years. Early years is part of our education system. My priority is ensuring schools have the best budget possible. The finance Minister has announced that, now that we have some details of our revenue budget, we will bring forward the budget for the whole of the Government in November.

Photo of Suzy Davies Suzy Davies Conservative 1:42, 25 September 2019

Bearing in mind the huge changes that will be happening in schools, not least with the change in curriculum and the preparation for that, but also the long-standing and very acute complaints made by schools now about their direct funding, I have to say I was disappointed not to see that more explicitly in even the cross-cutting themes of Government, because, of course, if you get education wrong, it has an effect on every other area of spend as we go forward.

The UK Government has announced that 2.3 per cent above inflation boost to the Welsh block. There's also over £2 billion due to come to the Welsh Government from the UK schools budget—specifically schools, not education. That's over three years, and I accept the annual settlement is a restriction on planning. You've seen the CYPE report on funding for schools, which concluded that there is a very real and present danger on the sufficiency of school funding. I'm sure that the Minister for local government will be making the case for more money for her portfolio, more money for councils. Are you going to be leaving it to her to find the extra direct funding that schools need?

Photo of Kirsty Williams Kirsty Williams Liberal Democrat 1:43, 25 September 2019

I'm grateful that the Member has acknowledged the difficulties that have been placed upon Welsh Government by the decision by her colleagues in Westminster only to give us an indicative budget for one year for education, whereas they have afforded the education system in England the courtesy of an indicative budget for three years, and that does indeed make things more difficult for us.

The Member will also be aware that I have welcomed very much the CYPE committee's work on education funding. I have accepted all the recommendations of that committee report, including a review into education funding in Wales. When that report is debated later on this term, I look forward to giving more details to Members on how we will respond fully to that. 

With regard to this year's budget, both I and the local government Minister are at one on the necessity and the priority in ensuring that both local authorities, which are the main source of funding for our schools, as well as education in totality are a priority.

Photo of Suzy Davies Suzy Davies Conservative 1:44, 25 September 2019

I'm grateful for that response, Minister, because, as we know, the concern that actually the CYPE committee had was, while we recognised that the local authorities are responsible for the majority of direct funding, that is not protected in any way. It'll be very interesting, when you produce the results of your review, and in fact respond to the debate, whether you're going to be in a position to say how any direct funding can be protected within a hopefully enhanced local authority budget.

I just want to ask you something different now, because this weekend we saw media coverage of concerns over the content of sex education lessons to very young children in parts of England. I know that making religious and sex education a compulsory part of the new curriculum is contentious already, but I have to say even I'm a little bit squeamish about the potential of drawing masturbation to the attention of six-year-olds, especially when we are also asking them to understand and speak up about inappropriate touching by adults. Now, I've no idea how accurate these reports are, but I think families and teachers across the nation would appreciate a statement from you to reassure them what you think age-appropriate sex education will look like in Wales. 

Photo of Kirsty Williams Kirsty Williams Liberal Democrat 1:45, 25 September 2019

The Member is absolutely right; if we are to achieve the goals of a purpose-led curriculum, and if we are to ensure that every child leaving our schools is a happy and healthy child, then age and developmentally appropriate RSE I believe is an important way in which we will achieve the purposes of our curriculum. Clearly, this is a sensitive subject, and the Member is right to say it is also an issue around child protection also. But I want to assure her and all Members here, and indeed the wider community, that the content of RSE will be developed very sensitively and carefully, with the best advice from professionals and those who have advised the Government to date on the necessity of ensuring that RSE is available to children in Wales.  

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 1:46, 25 September 2019

(Translated)

Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Siân Gwenllian.

Photo of Siân Gwenllian Siân Gwenllian Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

Thank you, Llywydd. The Labour Party has said that they will abolish private schools, redistributing their properties to the state. A motion was passed in their conference to integrate private schools into the state sector. Now, given that only 2.2 per cent of Welsh children are educated in private schools, do you agree that it would be a relatively simple matter to move immediately to scrapping private schools in Wales?

Photo of Kirsty Williams Kirsty Williams Liberal Democrat 1:47, 25 September 2019

I have no plans to scrap private schools in Wales. 

Photo of Siân Gwenllian Siân Gwenllian Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

Okay. Well, it’ll be very interesting to hear the debate, or it would be very interesting if we were able to hear the discussion in Cabinet with your fellow Labour members on that issue, where there has been clear guidance provided by their conference. So, it was interesting to hear your response there.

Labour too would campaign to abolish the charitable status of private schools, and I note that a consultation is ongoing with the Welsh Government on this issue and I look forward to seeing private schools paying tax. And this, of course, raises questions about Ysgol Gymraeg Llundain, the Welsh school in London. I look forward to seeing how you intend to allow Welsh-speaking parents to continue to receive Welsh-medium education in London.

Suzy Davies referred to this issue, which is another issue altogether, but, in the Children, Young People and Education Committee last week, you mentioned that there was a strong lobby, or at least a strong response, against including religious education and RSE as a statutory part of the new curriculum without the right for parents to withdraw their children from those lessons. I do very much hope that you are not considering giving in to this pressure and that you agree with me that these are two crucially important areas and should be retained as statutory elements of the new curriculum as we aim towards creating healthy, confident citizens and a society that respects diversity.

Photo of Kirsty Williams Kirsty Williams Liberal Democrat 1:49, 25 September 2019

Well, luckily for us, Presiding Officer, education is devolved and we don't need a party conference in Brighton or, indeed, Bournemouth to tell us how to run our education system. I see no problems with the Welsh Government's commitment to continue to support Welsh-medium education in London. We know a number of those families return to Wales and place their children in Welsh-medium schools here, and I have no plans to change the support for that. And I can assure the Member that I have no plans to change my mind with regard to the statutory nature of both religious education or RSE in our curriculum reforms. 

Photo of Siân Gwenllian Siân Gwenllian Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

Excellent. I’m extremely pleased to hear that last answer, certainly.

Turning to another issue, which is transportation-to-school policy, in response to points raised by Llyr Gruffydd last week, the Minister for International Relations and the Welsh Language stated that there would be a refresh of the Learner Travel (Wales) Measure 2008, and that we can expect that in the autumn. There are examples of the need to create change arising across Wales, particularly in terms of pupils in Welsh-medium education. In Flint, for example, it is disappointing that the cabinet there is going to be charging sixth-form students for their transportation to school, which will particularly impact pupils in the sixth form at Ysgol Maes Garmon, and there's a possibility that parents will face an increase of 400 per cent in the cost of sending pupils to Welsh-medium sixth-form provision in Neath Port Talbot.

These issues are at risk of undermining any investment in Welsh-medium education and attempts to reach a million Welsh speakers. So, can you expand on what the Welsh language Minister said on this intention to refresh learner travel policy? When and how will any review happen? Can people express their views during this review, and is the aim, ultimately, to strengthen the access of our pupils to Welsh-medium education?

Photo of Kirsty Williams Kirsty Williams Liberal Democrat 1:51, 25 September 2019

The Member will be aware that school transport, somewhat curiously, does not fall under my portfolio, but falls under the portfolio of my colleague Ken Skates. But, I, Ken Skates, Eluned Morgan and Julie James are working collectively on a policy solution to the situation that we find ourselves in. Moves in Flintshire and Neath Port Talbot have been a cause of concern to me. I understand that the policy in Neath Port Talbot has been put on hold at the moment, and that is very welcome.

In the case of post-16 transport, it is an undeniable situation that to access Welsh-medium post-16 provision children are having to travel significant distances. We should be ensuring that there is a transport policy that allows them to pursue their education continuum through the medium of Welsh, and should not be putting barriers in their way in their ability to do that, which is why the Government is committed to looking at a policy solution to this problem.