4. What assessment has the Welsh Government made of the value for money of the Arbed am Byth home energy scheme? OAQ54425

As part of a rigorous tender process, Welsh Government undertook a thorough analysis of the commercial aspects of the bid. The contract includes set costs for each measure, which were benchmarked not only against other bidders at the time of tender, but also against similar fuel poverty schemes.

The last time I asked the First Minister about the Arbed am Byth home energy scheme, I informed him that contractors were being encouraged to charge £245 for soft lighting measures, plural, for basically changing light bulbs, as I said last time, and £124 for water measures, which is essentially screwing an aerator into a tap.

I got a letter from the First Minister to claim that my figures were wrong because they didn't relate to a single item, but I didn't allege that. Reading the letter further, he actually confirms what I said because the First Minister here talked of efficiency measures. So, it seems that our First Minister thinks that it's appropriate for £245 to be paid to contractors just to change a few light bulbs. Well, the public doesn't. I met with the Wales Audit Office and they're now investigating, which is something the Government failed to do because all they did was ask Arbed themselves. So, now, speaking on behalf of the First Minister, do you concede that the taxpayer—it is ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous—that the taxpayer is being billed £245 to change light bulbs and £124 to change aerators? Do you agree that that is an outrageous waste of money? And yes, as my colleague over there said, it's ridiculous.

Well, Neil McEvoy is right that the Auditor General for Wales recently undertook a value-for-money audit of the Welsh Government's efforts to tackle fuel poverty since 2010 and the strategy that has been alongside that, and we look forward to receiving that report. But insofar as Arbed 3 is concerned, the contract was subject to a robust procurement process; due diligence was undertaken at the award of the contract; and I think it's really important to remember that the contract includes a profit-cap clause and a percentage of performance-related payment, and that protects Welsh Government investment to ensure quality and value for money.

The Member makes an important point: it's important in all these schemes that efficiency is gained and value for money is achieved. Of course, it's not just the Welsh taxpayer who funds the Arbed scheme; a significant proportion of that money comes from the European regional development fund. So, I wonder what work is being done, in advance of Brexit, to ensure that energy efficiency schemes that look to make homes in Wales more efficient moving forward and help to deliver success for the climate change emergency, what work is being done to make sure that schemes like this do continue and we do continue to have sustainable homes in the future beyond Brexit.

Well, of course, we are extremely concerned and I know the concern is shared across the Chamber in terms of the future of EU funding in Wales. We haven't had any real guarantee from the UK Government in terms of future funding for this scheme or any other scheme.

When we look, for example, at the shared prosperity fund, there was a consultation promised a year, 18 months ago, and absolutely nothing has materialised. So, we're, rightly, all very much concerned in terms of what we're able to do in these areas that have benefited very much from EU funding. And let's not forget, areas that have benefited from EU funding have often been the poorest areas in Wales, areas where fuel poverty is at its most serious. So, we're extremely concerned about the future. We continue to lobby the UK Government, as you'd expect us to do.

I've had contact from constituents in the Lansbury Park estate in Caerphilly who value the Arbed scheme and are waiting for the work to be done. I wrote to the Welsh Government on 14 May regarding those delays, and discussions had been taking place between the Welsh Government and the Arbed delivery team following the submission of Caerphilly County Borough Council's bid to complete those works.

And in her response, dated 4 June, the Minister for Environment, Energy and Rural Affairs indicated the Welsh Government would be meeting with the local authority and Arbed to bring the work up to date. I'm still getting queries from constituents, as I say, who value the scheme. At the time, Caerphilly council said, despite this undertaking, that they hadn't heard anything further from the Welsh Government. So, can she provide an update on that and whether this work was carried out, and whether or not there are plans to both meet with Caerphilly and to complete the work?

I can confirm that meetings were held over the summer between senior mangers across all of the parties concerned to progress and overcome some of the challenges that have been identified in terms of rolling out the scheme in Lansbury Park. I'm told that good progress is being made, but that things have taken longer than anticipated. But, there will be a meeting held on 16 October, which will seek to resolve those outstanding issues, and I'll ensure that you're updated after that. 

Can I ask, one of the great opportunities, of course, that there is in terms of Brexit is an opportunity to resolve—

My fault. Sorry, Darren, I need to ask the initial question first. Question 5, Michelle Brown. [Laughter.] You're on next, Darren.

That's why I was caught out.

Me too.