Yes, I would entirely agree with you. There was a good report from the auditor on public services boards, and they're relatively new. They are taken into account in the regional working group that the WLGA has, which I mentioned in response to an earlier question. The WLGA is doing some good work alongside its colleagues in health around how we can spread good practice across the public services boards, how we can reduce duplication where there is some with regional partnership boards, and how those two mechanisms can work more effectively together alongside other regional arrangements. It's a piece of work that I hope will be made public towards Christmas of this year, as we come to a conclusion with the WLGA.

But we have been working along the lines suggested in that report for quite some time, and I do agree with Mark Isherwood that there is a dual question there. It's not just about people management—I don't disagree at all with what he said about appraisal systems—it's also about strategic thinking and leadership arrangements that are put in place for those boards. And so, I think this is a good tool in the armoury, if you like, of the improvement of the public services boards, but it is worth remembering that they haven't been there for all that long, and they are still bedding in. We have seen, as the report says, some very good practice across Wales, and it is just a question of how we spread that out.

The Deputy Minister for Health and Social Services and the Deputy Minister for Housing and Local Government jointly attended a conference, or an all-day engagement exercise anyway, on the way that public services boards and regional partnership boards work together. And there were some good learning and outcomes from that that we're taking forward as well.