3. What assessment has the Welsh Government made of the efficacy of local authorities' inspection and regulation services? OAQ54483

Local authorities are responsible for inspecting and regulating many different services, both devolved and non-devolved. The Welsh Government sets the statutory frameworks for those in devolved areas, and these are periodically reviewed.

Thank you for that answer, Minister. Following the recent investigation by the BBC that showed the licensing system isn't working and that dogs are being held in disgusting and cruel conditions, your Government has said it's going to review the rules. If you think that the BBC report makes for distressing viewing, you should see some of the stuff on the C.A.R.I.A.D. campaign website. It's absolutely shocking what these dogs are being put through. That this is still going on in Wales, I'm sure everyone agrees, is absolutely shameful. 

Now, the media and some politicians have blamed local authorities and vets for the problems, but we have to remember that those truly responsible for these animals being kept in such poor conditions are the puppy farmers themselves. I appreciate that local authorities are strapped for cash, they have an awful lot of priorities on their plate to deal with. It takes a lot of money and resources to properly run a licensing system and an inspection system. It takes additional money to do unannounced inspections, for instance, which don't seem to be happening. So, do you not agree with me that the best way to cease this regulated suffering is to ban puppy farming altogether? I'm a great believer in 'where there's a will, there's a way', and surely Welsh Government should be working with organisations such as C.A.R.I.A.D. to achieve a form of ban that would be effective. So, for the sake of tackling animal cruelty in Wales, an outright ban, I think, is the only solution. Do you agree with me?

So, the Minister outlined in her earlier questions a whole range of measures that she has recently announced in this regard, and, of course, we're all deeply disturbed by the accounts of non-compliance in the BBC documentary. It was horrible—absolutely heartbreaking. 

My colleague Lesley Griffiths outlined a series of things that she's undertaking in this regard. It is always tempting to think that there's a quick fix for these things, but they always have other consequences, not intended. So, we do need to work through those carefully. I think that Lesley Griffiths has already said in this session, Deputy Presiding Officer, that she will be bringing forward more information to the Senedd as those things work through the system.

I think everybody was disgusted and dismayed in equal measure by what we saw on our screens last week, but my question is very clear: I'm asking now for a moratorium on any new licences whatsoever to do with puppy farming. Because, in accordance with the replies that I've had from both Ceredigion and Carmarthenshire councils, they are overwhelmed at the moment. If they're overwhelmed at the moment with what they've got, then it's fairly clear to me they don't need any more. I know that there's an application in Ceredigion, and I know that there are 4,500 signatories against that application. I would lend my support to that because we cannot carry on allowing licences or allowing authorities to allow licences when, by their own admission, they are overwhelmed.

Yes, and, as I said, Lesley Griffiths, in her earlier answers, set out a number of things. I know she's written to the Wales animal health and welfare framework group to accept their offer of help and request an urgent and immediate review of the dog breeding regulations. Perhaps, given the amount of interest across the Chamber, and the cross-portfolio thing—you've just put a written statement out, I know—I would be happy, and I'm sure you'd agree, to broker a meeting between various Assembly Members and us about the way forward across the two portfolios.

Minister, over many years, I've been becoming quite concerned at the number of cases taken by trading standards against our farmers, who end up in court simply for the case to fall. An allegation that a farmer—this is in north Wales—took an unreasonable time to dispose of carcasses was dropped. A case against three farmers and their management of a flock of Welsh mountain sheep went to court and was dropped. And I know of a farmer taken to court for failing to provide fresh golden-coloured straw for bedding. This was unsuccessful in court too. So, unsurprisingly, there is a feeling that local authorities do seem determined to prosecute in the first instance rather than looking to work more constructively.

Only recently, a farmer in my own constituency was taken to court, over many months of an actual agonising decision—and I can see other Members agreeing with me. The court costs were £100,000, and the case was dropped. This situation has to change, as farmers are unfairly crippled by the cost of combating criminal cases. Will you review the efficiency of local authorities and their inspection regimes to look at a way of perhaps looking at a better way of working more co-operatively with farmers, rather than taking farmers to court using taxpayers' money in terms of court expenses paid for by local authorities, and, indeed, leaving our hard-working farmers, at the end of the day, with massive court costs, only for a failed court case?

Well, I've no idea of the detail of the cases that Janet Finch-Saunders is setting out. If you want to write in, that's fine. But, first of all, trading standards is a non-devolved service provided by our local authorities, and, secondly, it's very difficult to make a general statement about the efficacy or otherwise of a prosecution policy off the back of three cases that I've just heard about. So, if you want to write in and tell me the detail of that, I'm happy to look at it.

In general, though, local authorities are very restrained in taking court action because it's a huge use of their resources in constrained circumstances. But I'll be more than happy to look at the specifics of the cases that she raised.