First of all, can I say that there are people in Welsh Labour who agree with you? I'm one of them.

There are two things we know: the rich are very good at producing schemes to avoid or reduce the amount of tax they pay—the classic is corporation tax, which has become a voluntary contribution by multinational companies; and, we need taxes, both local and national, to pay for the services we use and need. The two most hated taxes by the rich have been council tax and non-domestic rates. These have been historically unavoidable, hence the demand for rate reduction schemes continually, and the turning of second homes into holiday properties using the rate reduction scheme to avoid or substantially reduce the amount that would have been due as council tax.

I welcome that the Welsh Labour Government is currently reviewing the impact and use of the discretionary powers for local authorities to apply council tax premiums and whether the new legislation is operating as intended. As part of the review, local authorities have been asked to provide any evidence they may have that private second homes are being incorrectly listed as self-catering properties. The difficulty is that many second home owners let friends and family use them, thus technically meeting the available-for-rent criteria, because they're letting them to people—sons, daughters, cousins—but I would suggest that they're not actually charging the rate that they should be.

Owners of self-catering accommodation must provide evidence that their property meets the criteria. The Valuation Office Agency determines whether a property is categorised as domestic or non-domestic. We have no control over the Valuation Office Agency, as an executive agency sponsored by Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs. As it is non-devolved, it is independent of the Welsh Government. What I do not understand is if these people are saying that these are second homes and they're renting them out, not as properties for rent, why HMRC are not chasing them for the income. I know what rental values are and a week in most of Wales at peak periods is well in excess of £1,000. These people, if they're renting it out for the period they're saying, they should be making a minimum of £12,000 to £15,000, and therefore HMRC should be chasing them for it. And I'm disappointed that HMRC aren't chasing them, because they should be paying tax on their income.

Ratepayers must continue to satisfy the non-domestic rates criteria for each property for each 12-month period. Otherwise, unless the property falls within any other category of non-domestic property, the property is likely to be considered domestic and would be subject to an assessment of liability to council tax. Where a property is listed as non-domestic self-catering accommodation, but does not meet the statutory criteria, the owner could face a backdated council tax demand. And I wonder how many of those have been made in Wales so far.

I am told that the Welsh Government is alive to the issue of second home owners switching the status of their property from council tax to non-domestic rates in an effort to potentially benefit from rate relief schemes. Perhaps the Minister could tell us how many backdated council tax demands there have been. As I said earlier, HMRC ought to be chasing these people. If they're renting them out for up to 70 days, then that should be generating a substantial amount of money.

Second homes also reduce the number of properties available for local people. They make young people leave the area as prices are forced up and cause the closure of local schools as the number of children left to attend them decreases. We know that owners of second homes who fulfil the criteria for determining whether a property is non-domestic may be liable for non-domestic rates. They may also be eligible for small business rate relief and therefore not have any liability after the small business rate relief is applied. The small business rate relief is fully funded by the Welsh Government, so why should we worry? Because all the non-domestic rates revenue raised in Wales is pooled and distributed to local authorities. When that money doesn't come in, all the rest of us in Wales are not getting as much as we would from that pool. This means that non payment in Gwynedd affects people in Swansea.

Last week, I checked the rental prices of holiday accommodation in Gwynedd during August. I could not find a property where the annual council tax would be less than two weeks' rent with a 100 per cent surcharge, or one week's rent without a surcharge. If it's a house or flat, they should pay council tax. I'd again call on the Minister to remove the small business rate relief scheme from houses and flats. It's a different solution to the one that Siân Gwenllian has put forward, but it is another solution—whilst keeping it for hotels and guesthouses. It's the right thing to do, it's good for income, good for the area, and it's a good use of public money. I urge the Welsh Government to take action. I don't care if you take Siân Gwenllian's suggestion or mine, it's just we need to take some action and do it.