10. Debate: Brexit

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 5:37 pm on 22 October 2019.

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Photo of Carwyn Jones Carwyn Jones Labour 5:37, 22 October 2019

Diolch, Llywydd. I'm going to try and calm things down a little, if I may. It's perfectly correct that this, the elected National Assembly of the people of Wales should debate these matters. It is a legal issue that we're discussing here and that is the question of an LCM. So, this is not time wasted in some way; we're doing this because a request has come to us from a Whitehall department and it's a request that, I suspect, will not be one that finds favour with us. I don't accept that, in some way, we should know our place here and not discuss issues that affect directly the people of Wales.

Could I remind those Members who claim, on the Conservative benches, that the Welsh Government has no strategy and has always opposed Brexit, that in 2016, together with Plaid Cymru, we published a White Paper that proposed Brexit? And it was a Brexit that included, yes, membership of the customs union and it included, yes, as much access as possible to the single market. Now, there are some who'll say, 'Well, that's not Brexit.' There's no evidence of that at all. And this is the problem. In 2016, there was no argument about what Brexit was meant to look like other than the fact that Britain had to leave the EU. Well, my view is that all you Brexiteers out there, you'd have had Brexit by now if you'd actually listened to the Welsh Government and to Plaid Cymru back in 2016, and Britain would no longer by a member of the EU. Instead, we've had three and a half years of utter chaos in Westminster.

And, what is the sense in rushing through in days the most important legislation that has been placed before Parliament, I'd argue, for at least 50 years? And we're going to go through it in days? That cannot possibly be right. All to meet a deadline that is artificially put there by the Prime Minister. There's no reason why it has to be done by 31 October. Now we hear the Prime Minister saying, 'Well, I might pull the vote.' Well, what's he got to hide, if that's the case? It surely cannot be right that a Government that cannot get its way just simply says, 'If we can't get our way, we'll take the ball home.' That's not the way to govern and that's not the way to reach out to others, either. All because of an artificial timetable. As the First Minister has said, we are asked to provide our consent today, almost, or tomorrow, maybe next week, but in such a short space of time that it is simply not possible to have an informed debate, regardless of the views of various Members in this Chamber.

I do not accept that this deal gives certainty. I wish it did, but I do not accept that it does. It kicks the can down the road to the end of 2020, so there will be discussions over the next year and if those discussions come to naught then the Government will decide whether or not the UK leaves with no deal or not. That cannot possibly be democracy. It's another year of uncertainty of course.