5. Statement by the Minister for Housing and Local Government: Update on Building Safety

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 4:00 pm on 22 October 2019.

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Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour 4:00, 22 October 2019

Well, thank you very much for that. I broadly agree with everything you've said. We are working, exactly as you say, on a comprehensive ethical policy. The White Paper will cover off some of the building safety bits of that. There are other bits around standards and green infrastructure and all the rest of it that we also want to put in place.

It is a near monopoly situation, but, actually, Lee Waters and I just met only yesterday with the SME building sector in Wales just to discuss how we could support the SME sector to step up to the plate, really, in terms of that and what they might require in terms of Government support to do that. Also, of course, now, we're able to build social housing at a pace and scale that we haven't had before, and that will drive a different kind of competition into the market. I think it cannot be said often enough that the standards that we build social housing to are higher, currently, than the standards that private sector housing is built to. I'm not sure that's widespread knowledge in Wales, so I'll just say it very clearly. We're looking to extend those standards right across the piece as fast as possible.

There is a whole issue—. I know that Mick Antoniw is aware of some of the legal issues around this about the privity of contract and so on, as a lawyer, so I'm going to lapse into legalese in a minute, but there are some real problems around the privity of contract arrangements and who is responsible. The issue that David Melding raised—and Leanne Wood raised, actually—about what the building control system is designed to do, because it is not designed, currently, to be a regulatory system enforced in the way that people are trying to make it—. What we need to do is look at a system that does do that, since a system based on trust has clearly failed, because, clearly, a system based on trust just means that people cut corners. So, we've got to come up with a better system than that and it's important to get that right so that we don't have another tragedy from unintended consequences later on down the line.

I do want to pay tribute, though, to our fire and rescue services in Wales. As I said in my statement, we've actually done very well in Wales. In fact, the fire service has done itself out of a job, almost, because they've done such a good job. We have a very comprehensive programme of building safety and even in the buildings that are now causing problems—and we've mentioned Celestia today, but that's not the only one in Wales; there are other buildings that have got those kinds of problems—but in all of those cases, the fire and rescue services are in there making sure that the right provisions are in place to keep people safe in their homes. So, I do want to emphasise that, Llywydd—that we are in that. So, if anybody knows of any other situations that we should be engaged in, I'm happy to do that. So, I share both Mick Antoniw's ambition and his frustration at the current system. We will be bringing at least part of what you're talking about forward. And in terms of the leaseholder thing, I think the First Minister said during FMQs—I will be responding to the expert report shortly, saying what we intend to do in Wales in that regard as well.