6. How is the Minister ensuring that the new guidance on talking about suicide is implemented in all schools in Wales? OAQ54602

Thank you, Lynne. As you know, we launched together on 10 September the new guidance and we will continue to work with partners, including the national advisory group, to ensure that it is promoted extensively amongst professionals, not just in schools but more widely across the system. And as part of our whole-school approach, we will consider how best to monitor its implementation, take-up and impact.

Thank you, Minister. I was delighted to join you at the launch and also to welcome the guidance, but, as I said, of course, it is a first step. It's excellent guidance prepared by Professor Ann John, but it will only be as good as the implementation. I wondered, too, whether you were aware of guidance issued this week by Public Health England, which stated that a single suicide in a school should be treated as a potential cluster because of the higher risk to young people. Would you agree with me that that emphasises just how urgent it is that where there has been a suicide in a school, that that school embraces proper postvention measures, such as the Step by Step programme, which is so successful with the Samaritans?

Yes. I am very well aware of the report that the Member refers to but the Member is also right in saying that the publication of our guidance is only the first step of the process. We will need to ensure, via the ministerial task and finish group, of which Lynne Neagle is a member, to develop robust implementation and monitoring systems, but it is also my intention to co-produce further resources with Professor Ann John and the expert group that sits around her, with a specific emphasis on making resources available for young people themselves. What we've made available in September of this year is very much a resource aimed at professionals working with young people, but it is now my intention to move to the next stage to make sure that there are more resources available for young people themselves. 

Minister, I think the fact we are able to discuss this previously taboo subject in the open and transparent way we do shows how far we've come as a country, and I think that's to be welcomed. We, of course, in this Chamber have our own direct experience of losing our much loved colleague, Carl Sargeant, in this tragic way, so I think there's an onus on all of us to do what we can to try and get the message out there, to tell people that they don't have to feel so lost that they have to turn to this course of action.

It's been good to see recently that television programmes such as EastEnders have been dealing with the issue of suicide with the moving storylines surrounding Bex Fowler and her stress over moving on to university. We know that young people are particularly vulnerable at the time of exams and, in a way, it's hard to avoid all of that stress, but it's important that those young people are signposted at the earliest opportunity, and that window of opportunity—and sometimes it is only a window—is taken the most advantage of to reach out to them.

So, can you tell us how you are ensuring, with this guidance that Lynne Neagle has mentioned, and you have mentioned, that young people are signposted as soon there are issues arising, and they do feel that there are people that they can turn to when sometimes they feel that all is lost?

Well, Nick, I think it is true to say that we have come some way in talking about suicide, but there is still a huge amount of stigma attached to suicide. And there is often a great nervousness amongst professionals to talk about what are very, very sensitive issues. Often they fear that what they may say may make matters worse, and that is the reason why we commissioned these resources in the first place to give confidence to our professionals working with young people about how it is really important to have these conversations—you can't make it worse—and to skill and empower them to have these discussions. But, of course, we need support services around when teachers and young people identify a problem. That's why we are making additional resources available for our counselling service. That's why we've recently announced a decision to extend our child and adolescent mental health services inreach pilot that was supposed to finish in July 2020; that will run now till the end of the year. And there are additional resources going into those pilots as we speak.

It's important that we don't medicalise the process of growing up—that is also a very important point. But we know that for some children who are under stress, we need timely and impactful interventions. Moving into higher education is yet again another potential trigger point: many people living away from home for the first time, having to establish new friendship groups as well as the academic pressures. And that's why we have made, in this year, £2 million available to the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales to support mental health projects in universities.

Minister, one of my staff members has just completed an ASIST training course—that is, an applied suicide intervention skills training. This involved having very uncomfortable conversations about suicide, and it's aiming to keep people safe for now. Are there any plans to roll this sort of scheme out with your own programmes to teachers and appropriate staff in Welsh schools?

Well, there are a plethora of training programmes and interventions that are available, and that sometimes causes problems for our schools—knowing which is the best training and the most appropriate and evidence-based approach to undertake. And that's why, as part of our whole-school approach to mental health, we are developing a toolkit for schools and a resource base for schools to try and simplify that process, so that they know what is available, what works and what there is a strong evidence base for. And, of course, we are making available additional resources for professional learning, thus creating the space for teaching professionals and other people working in our schools to undertake that training.