5. Member Debate under Standing Order 11.21(iv): Tackling LGBT Hate Crime

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 4:20 pm on 23 October 2019.

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Photo of Mick Antoniw Mick Antoniw Labour 4:20, 23 October 2019

Thank you, Deputy Llywydd. First, I start by thanking Siân Gwenllian for bringing forward and instigating this debate—I think a very timely debate. Siân, of course, has a long history of campaigning on these issues, as have quite a number of people within this Chamber, so it was good to see these coming together for this debate today.

It isn't my intention, as is sometimes traditional with these, to summarise what everyone has said, because the points have been made so powerfully; the statistics are there. So, I really just thought that it might be an opportunity to reflect, actually, on where we have come from, because certainly those of my generation and anyone brought up in school in the late 1950s and early 1960s will know that, in school, racism, homophobia and antisemitism were part of the culture of schools. The actual changes that have taken place through the 1960s, the 1970s, the 1980s to today are quite phenomenal and I think it's important to recognise them, because in recognising those, we're also able to identify what the current challenges still are.

I remember when I was a student, when the National Union of Students Wales was formed, they were one of the bodies that first, actually, went over the barricades in order to take forward the campaign for gay rights then, which was not popular. It was not a welcoming campaign that people approached with open arms. But it was one that I think young people coming up in the 1970s felt was a necessary one that had to be fought; it was part of the change in society. And in Wales, in fact, it was the Welsh national institutions that produced, I think, the first Welsh translation of the campaign—'ymgyrch hawliau hoyw'—and distributed badges at the 1976 or 1977 Eisteddfod. And it was very interesting to see all these people going around thinking they were supporting a happy campaign, but it opened the door and it was the first step to confronting the inherent cultural prejudice that existed in so many communities and in those generations.

Of course, it's also important to recognise where we came from in respect of the numbers of people who, until the laws were changed, were prosecuted and actually jailed because of their sexual orientation. In 1945, 800 men were prosecuted, because it was regarded as a male offence. In 1955, 2,500 were prosecuted, of whom 700 were jailed. So, the actual significance of what was being done in the 1950s by leaders like Bertrand Russell, Clem Attlee and Isaiah Berlin to actually bring forward the concept of law reform and to challenge those—. It's quite sad within our society sometimes that we end up with correcting so many injustices posthumously. So, Alan Turing, when Gordon Brown actually apologised, supported by David Cameron at the time, for that. So many of these issues are ones that we have to deal with in that posthumous way. And the idea of chemical castration as being part of the norm of a treatment for a criminal offence would be something we would just regard as something that was fascistic.

Of course, we lived through the 1980s campaign, the section 28 campaign, where there was a mobilisation of Conservative forces to actually re-establish norms of restriction on gay rights, and a campaign to actually fight against that. And then the action that was taken to lower the age of consent from 21 to 18, which was, in fact, the campaign to lower it to 16, but of course, because of the objections there, it was only 18 at the time. I think everyone was amazed then, again, at the real breakthrough in legislation, which was the Civil Partnership Act 2004, which I think really opened the door.

But, we can't ignore that there is a substantial growth of prejudice and bigotry that was perhaps underlying there that now re-emerges within the toxicity that exists within our politics, not just within Wales or the UK, but across Europe and internationally. It is, in part, fuelled by the growth of the far right, and it is, in part, fuelled by inequality. If you look at the situation that gay people face now in Putin's Russia, the actual physical persecution that still exists, and we deal, as Governments, with these people, so the whole issue of how our international ethics need to change to actually combat this, rather than what effectively happens internationally, which is the turning of the blind eye to those unethical events.

I was so impressed—I know I can rarely make a speech without mentioning Ukraine because of my background—that they had the Pride demonstration for the first time in Kyiv where there were no events on it and politicians joined it. To see that comparator between what is happening there and then what is happening in Moscow, I think is important, because we live within this global world, yet there are still 73 countries where being gay is still not legal. So, I won't go through the statements on that, but clearly there are major issues within our communities in terms of sex education, training and the role that that actually plays. And I think we all still know that there is an enormous, long way to go, an undercurrent.

I not very long ago had a phone call during one of the election campaigns, someone lobbying me to ask me about what we were going to do about the obscenity of homosexuality that was being taught within our schools. The only way I thought I could respond was by saying, 'Well, my son is gay, what do you suggest I say to him?' and the phone was put down. But there is that undercurrent that feels more capable of talking in that particular way, and I think there are links between the forms of prejudice, of racism and bigotry that have emerged.

Can I also say—? In my past role, working as a trade union lawyer, the work that the trade union reps have done and the gay reps have done within our trade unions to actually give voice and representation. I'll never forget one representative who I was talking to and giving advice to on something was telling me that in his capacity as rep, his parents had never spoken to him since he declared that he was gay, and that there were still people like that, who basically don't have those sorts of family connections anymore.

We saw recently the attack on Owen Jones, the journalist, which was clearly a provoked gay attack on him, and because of his outspoken positions. So, I very much welcome how far we have come, but it is important to understand how far we still have to go. So, I very much look forward to what Lord Thomas is going to say tomorrow, because the key thing about devolution and the legal system—it's not about law for law's sake, but it's about laws being there to enable policy to actually work, to be implemented and enforced, and it's creating that framework.

I welcome all the speeches that have been made today. I'm just going to concentrate on a couple, because I thought Joyce—