Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 4:17 pm on 5 November 2019.
Thank you for that series of questions, Mike, and, again, I'd broadly agree with the thrust of your questions. So, just to do that last one first, the scheme that Lee Waters is promoting to bring houses back into beneficial use means that you have to live in it yourself for five years in order not to lose the grant. What this is doing is allowing you to rent it out through this scheme, so it's just another way of bringing it back into beneficial use. We have a number of other schemes that we're looking at at the moment for people who are currently living in a house that's not up to standard. I went to visit one in the top end of Rhondda Cynon Taf only the other day, with Andrew Morgan, the council leader, where a lady was actually living in her house despite it being below standard. We were able, through a mixture of grants available from that council and care and repair, to bring it back up to standard whilst she was—well, she had to move out to live with her daughter for a couple of weeks, but while she was broadly resident in it, and that was good as well. So, this is just another way of bringing empty residential properties back into use on that one.
In terms of the Swansea, Cardiff or any heating housing market, we do think there is a demand for this, because although there's a big demand for private rented sector houses in both those places that you mentioned, and in a number of other places in Wales, what this does is it means that the landlord doesn't have to worry about voids, turnover, damage—all of the sorts of things they have to deal with. And, actually, we know from our consultation that many landlords would much prefer the steady income that they know will happen over five years than the fluctuations that they get in a volatile market. So, I think it will have a place right across Wales.
You mentioned the remarks that Jacob Rees-Mogg made about Grenfell Tower, and I'd just like to say that I join you in thinking that those remarks were deeply insensitive and very hurtful to the survivors of Grenfell and the families of those who died. I believe he has subsequently apologised, but it is remarkable that somebody could make such remarks at this time and in the face of the reports just coming out on Grenfell that we've seen. Just to be clear, the 'stay put' policy is to ensure that people trying to get out of a building are not greeted by incoming firefighters trying to come with their equipment up the same set of stairs. We know that it didn't work in Grenfell, with tragic consequences, but that was not because the people in the tower were not being sensible, or, in fact, following the instructions of the fire service, as we know from the report. So, I think that was a really shocking intervention by Jacob Rees-Mogg, but, as I say, I understand he's now apologised.
Going back to the statement in front of us, we're very keen that the Welsh quality housing standard should be the standard that houses are brought up to in order to take advantage of this scheme, and, of course, Mike, you're absolutely right about the security of tenure, and the particular need for families with children to be able to keep their children in the same school. And to give them the social support that they need in order to be able to do that is one of the prime reasons that we want to bring this scheme forward.