3. What discussions has the First Minister had with the UK Government on the implications for Wales following the resignation of the Secretary of State for Wales? 361

We have had no such discussions.

I've been disgusted by the events of the last week involving Ross England. His attempt to obstruct the justice system should have prompted widespread condemnation and immediate disciplinary action by the leadership of the Welsh Tories. Instead, it was followed by the promotion of Ross England as a candidate in a target Assembly seat. We should not forget that at the heart of this story is a woman who will have to live with what was done to her for the rest of her life. There is no way that she should have had to endure a second trial.

The episode has cost the Tory Secretary of State for Wales his Cabinet job. If he did know about this incident, as is suggested by the emergence of an e-mail from a special advisor, then he must withdraw as a candidate in this upcoming election. Anyone who minimises or condones the collapse of a rape trial is not fit for public office. If it is proven that other senior Tory figures in the party in Wales and England knew of this sordid affair but did nothing, then they must also seriously consider their positions.

Do you agree with me that Alun Cairns is unfit for public office and that any inquiry should include who else within the Tory party knew of Ross England's collapsed rape trial? And will you also be making representations to the UK Government when a new Secretary of State for Wales is announced to insist that someone with a knowledge of what our country needs is appointed? While this anachronistic post exists, we can ill afford another voice for the UK Government in Wales as opposed to what is required: a strong voice for Wales within the UK Government. 

Well, Dirprwy Lywydd, I completely share Leanne Wood's disgust at what happened with the case and the way in which it had been handled by the Conservative Party, and Leanne, of course, reminds us very, very importantly that behind all this is a woman's life who has been impacted by what's happened and, obviously, having to go through the current situation would be extremely distressing, so I think that in all of these discussions, we have to have the woman at heart, the victim at heart.

I will say that I agree with Jeremy Corbyn's comments on this issue, and he said, whilst Alun Cairns can legally stand,

'does he have a moral right to stand as a candidate?'

He goes on to say:

'If he’s stepping down as a minister because of his involvement then I would have thought the very least the Conservative party can do is not put him up as a candidate in the next election.'

And, of course, Leanne's right again to say that we do need a Secretary of State who understands Wales, and I very much look forward to a new Secretary of State after the general election who has Wales's interests at heart, rather than the interests of the Conservative Party at heart. And it's clearly not a good thing that we're in a situation now where the only Minister left in the Wales Office is the former MP for Torbay who, I think it's fair to say, would probably have limited knowledge of the issues affecting us here in Wales.

As I've made clear in my comments earlier today, I believe that the Secretary of State for Wales was right to resign from his role, given the circumstances. And I've also made it absolutely clear today that I think this case has been shocking and disturbing, and my heart goes out to this individual.

Now, as the Minister is aware, given today's resignation, an investigation under the UK Government's ministerial code will now take place, and that investigation will now take its course, and I very much agree. And it's important that we maintain the highest possible standards as politicians in all our parliamentary institutions, including here.

Therefore, can the Minister tell us what the Welsh Government is doing to ensure that its own ministerial code is as effective as possible so that the public can be confident in all our parliamentary institutions, and in all our Executive's institutions, to make sure that that code is as robust as possible?

I thank Paul Davies for his comments, and I'm familiar with the statement that he issued earlier today, although I do feel it was perhaps a week late in coming. But I will say that the Welsh Government is constantly reviewing the ministerial code, and when additions need to be made to it, then they are done. So, Ministers are regularly issued with copies of the ministerial code, which we have to completely absorb and ensure that we, at all times, are observing what's set out in the ministerial code.

One of the impacts that Alun Cairns departure as Secretary of State could have is sending out a clear and substantive message to women who are considering coming forward to report rape that their trauma through a court appearance may be used to vilify them and that the case could collapse, which is exactly what happened in this case.

At a time when we all know that there is already an extremely very low rate of successful rape trials in the UK and in Wales, I think the damage that this very high-profile case can do to further diminish any prospect of women wanting to put themselves through this is extremely high. I would call on Alun Cairns to do the right thing in this case, because he stood by somebody, and it seems in the full knowledge of what that individual did, and making that woman go through a second trial. If one trial isn't enough, two trials is just beyond belief.

And there's a real danger here—and I urge everyone to be really careful in what they're doing—in identifying this victim, because that is my fear in all of this now, that somehow that could happen. We must make absolutely certain that that doesn't happen. So, doing the right thing in terms of giving up a job that he may or may not have had in a few weeks' time doesn't exactly satisfy me, and I'm sure it won't satisfy all those other women. If he was going to do the right thing, Alun Cairns, for his role in this, he ought to give up his position, because he doesn't, in my opinion, qualify to represent anybody any more in public office. Can you imagine how he's going to handle cases that might come to him about injustice in the future? Can you imagine that any woman in the Vale of Glamorgan, which he represents, would want to go anywhere near him or his party at this time? So, if the Tories—and I believe what Paul Davies said and I accept it absolutely—but if the Tories want to really say that they care, and I'm talking about the Tories in the UK and their head office, about this, then he has to go. That is the only route forward, because, unfortunately, what he's doing is damaging all his colleagues as well.

I thank Joyce Watson for those comments, and what she says really echoes the words of Christina Rees, of course, who has said that

'Alun Cairns stepping down as secretary of state is far from the end of the matter, and is a shoddy halfway house that will fool nobody.'

And she goes on to say that

'He has still not explained his behaviour and still not addressed the grave issues raised by the leaked emails yesterday.'

And he

'should do the right thing—apologise, and step down as a candidate.'

But I think the most important point that Joyce Watson has raised today is the importance of ensuring that women still have the confidence to come forward and to report things that have happened to them, to ensure that there is support available for those women, and also to ensure that the women involved can always have the confidence that their anonymity will be preserved at all times.

Finally, Alun Davies.

I'm grateful to you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Can I associate myself with remarks made by Leanne Wood and by Joyce Watson in this session of questions? The whole matter, which has been the subject of public debate over the last week, has laid bare some very, very serious issues in terms of not just the behaviour of an individual, but of the role of the Secretary of State. I hope that we and the Welsh Government will be able to pursue matters, not only to protect the place of the victim in this, but also to ensure that, wherever we have the influence to do this—I'm pleased to see the Counsel General's in his place this afternoon—we protect the court system in Wales, to ensure that women do feel able to come forward in these cases.

But this also raises significant issues about the role of the Secretary of State, and I think, for some years, many of us have felt that the role of the Secretary of State is an anachronism in this current United Kingdom. Many of us have felt, and, particularly, I speak from my experience in Government, that there is no purpose to the office of the Wales Office or the office of the Secretary of State any further.

Finance Minister, you may not be aware, but a recent hearing by the external affairs committee spent an hour and a half debating relations between the Governments of the United Kingdom with Michael Gove, just before recess, and in that hour and a half, neither Michael Gove nor any member of that committee mentioned the Wales Office. I think that speaks volumes about how the Wales Office is actually recognised in today's United Kingdom. It is time for us to put in place inter-governmental machinery that ensures that all the Governments of the United Kingdom are able to work together for the benefit of all of us in the United Kingdom, and I hope that if anything comes out of this sorry business, that will at least be one thing that does come out of this, and I hope the Welsh Government can pursue that.

Thank you to Alun Davies for raising that particular issue, and, of course, the First Minister recently set out his vision, if you like, for inter-governmental relationships amongst the constituent nations of the UK. I think it is really important that that system of relationships is underpinned by the machinery that will best suit our ambitions for the way in which we will relate to other parts of the UK.

Thank you very much, Trefnydd.