I thank the Minister for his answers. He clearly doesn't speak to the same families as I do. But I'll be absolutely clear that I'm not calling for him to resign today. I think he needs to reflect on the fact that, as I've already said, eight reports, surveys and visits had taken place and raised concerns before his officials did anything. And we've had the first quarterly report that told us that, even after intervention, the service still isn't safe. I think it may be that the public in Wales will have some concerns about his apparent complacency.

If I can take him back to the report, where the report raises wider issues for the NHS in Wales, it says, and I quote,

'The Welsh Government will no doubt also want to reflect on the issues raised in this report and give consideration to how they will gain assurances on the robustness of quality governance arrangements across other NHS bodies.'

Now, referring back to previous questions I've asked him in his other role around the capacity of the non-executives in Cwm Taf, prior to his intervention, his special adviser—and he may want to look back at the transcript of the committee—made it absolutely clear that there was a very poor level of scrutiny, and this report confirms that, is the Minister prepared to accept today that there is a real need to look at the way in which non-executives, particularly very well remunerated chairs and vice-chairs are appointed? Does he need to ask questions across the service about their capacity to scrutinise? And does he need to look at the way that the health boards are structured, where the non-executives and the executive directors sit around a table together and it's very easy to see how a culture develops where the board is one board and the non-executives lose their focus in scrutinising the performance of their executive directors?