4. What recent discussions has the Counsel General had with law officers regarding the outcome of the judicial review about the alleged mishandling of raising the state pension age for women born in the 1950s? OAQ54700

The Welsh Government have expressed concerns to the UK Government on a number of occasions about women who have had their state pension age raised without effective or sufficient notification. As the Member will know, the High Court recently dismissed a judicial review of a case brought by two women. I am aware of that judgment and await any appeal.

I'm grateful to the Counsel General for his reply. I'm afraid he might be getting rather fed up with me this afternoon. I would like to take this opportunity, Llywydd, just to remind the Chamber of the scale of this problem. We have an estimated 195,000 women across Wales affected by that—over 41,000 in the region that I represent. I'd like to ask the Counsel General this afternoon—he mentioned in his response the ongoing appeal—to look and see whether there is any way that he and the Welsh Government, given the impact of that loss of income to Wales from those women who are not receiving those pensions, could look again to see if there's any way that he can provide any support to the appeal, or perhaps produce some evidence—and that would be another part of the Welsh Government rather than him himself—to support that appeal. And can I also ask him to have discussions, particularly depending on the outcome of the general election, of course, with his colleagues in the Labour Party at UK level? Now, they have already pledged to extend pension credit to the women affected, but that's a means-tested benefit and it is not fair to ask those women who have lost a benefit to which they're entitled to ask for means-tested benefits in order to get redress. So, can I ask the Counsel General if he or the appropriate person in the Welsh Government will make representations on behalf of these women should his party find itself in Government? Nobody underestimates the scale of the problem, but I'm sure that he would agree with me that it's also difficult to underestimate the scale of the injustice.  

Well, I will associate myself with the opening and closing remarks, if I may say, in relation to the scale of this issue, and I absolutely don't tire of hearing in relation to this matter from the Member. She and other Members in this Chamber have consistently raised this matter, and I think it's a matter of the gravest injustice that women who have, in many other ways in their lives, faced discrimination because of their gender throughout their adult working lives should face this further injustice at a point when they may be least able to make other choices to address that. I think it imposes a particularly grave responsibility on the UK Government and Parliament to address this question in a way that restores justice to those women. 

On the question of the legal proceedings and the role of the Welsh Government in that, she will know from previous exchanges we've had in this Chamber that I have reviewed and kept under review powers that I may have to intervene in legal proceedings to deal with the sorts of issues that she has raised in her question, and, unfortunately, I've not been able to persuade myself that those powers of intervention exist. But we have, as a Government, made reasoned representations on a number of occasions to the UK Government with very, very disappointing responses on each, I think, occasion that we have done so. I share with her the hope that the general election will lead to the election of a Government that restores the justice that this cohort of women so richly deserve. 

Can I join you in sharing the views that we need a Government that will actually respond to these women, who have actually received an injustice? And I'll declare an interest now, in that my wife is one of those women. I'm sure there are many others, and we all appreciate that. The loss of that income is a huge disadvantage. You quite rightly pointed out that many of those women have suffered during their working careers. They weren't allowed to join company pension schemes. They would often work part time and came in at different times because of family commitments in those lives and those times. Things have changed since then, since they were actually starting out in their careers. But you've said you urged—. Can I urge you to actually continue to pressurise the UK Government and look at all avenues possible? If you haven't, find the gap, if you can get involved in this.

And could I also ask you to look to colleagues in your Government, because it's not just about the unfairness to those women in those cases of losing the money, but they are carers, they take on caring responsibilities? That's going to be a burden to this Welsh Government. They take on other duties, which will become a burden to this Welsh Government. Those are huge issues that we haven't yet anticipated the financial outcome of. Will you look at those figures? Would you ask your ministerial colleagues to address the issues of what is going to happen to those women, because they're either not going to work, and therefore there's going to be a situation as to the loss of income for them, and how do we, as the social services, provide the services to them? If they are carers and if they take on work, they lose their caring facilities. How do we provide the care and facilities for them, and the cost of all that? It's a benefit that we have to identify, to tell the UK Government, 'This is costing you not just the money that these women are losing, but the services they are losing as a consequence of that.' 

Well, I thank the Member for highlighting and underlining the importance of the impact of these changes principally on the women involved, but also more broadly on public services and the economy and communities here in Wales. He talked in particular about the role of many of the women affected in their caring responsibilities, and I want to reassure him that the impact of these changes is something that the Welsh Government is considering. The work that the Deputy Minister, for example, has led on in relation to the Welsh Government's gender review has considered some of these impacts that he is describing in his question. I think he outlines very eloquently, if I may say, the extent and the depth of the injustice that many of these women face. 

Thank you, Counsel General.