6. Debate: The General Principles of the National Health Service (Indemnities) (Wales) Bill

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 5:09 pm on 19 November 2019.

Alert me about debates like this

Photo of Angela Burns Angela Burns Conservative 5:09, 19 November 2019

Thank you for bringing forward a statement on the Bill today, Minister. The Welsh Conservatives will be supporting it. I know that it's very much looked forward to by the medical profession—it's a great step forward. I do want to just echo the comments made by the three Chairs who've spoken, as to why we've had to rush this at the last knockings and why it didn't come forward earlier on this year, given that you'd already made that intent and you'd implemented the future liabilities scheme.

In terms of any commentary that I might wish to make on the Bill, I think I would like to reserve most of my commentary for, 'Have you made enough plans for the money?' I was actually, personally, very shocked during the evidence session to find out that, sometimes, a negligence claim can come forward 20 years after the event. So, it must be extremely difficult. I noted from your additional letter that you sent to the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee that you'd commissioned external financial advisers to undertake the financial due diligence and that you had been liaising with actuaries to try to predict it, and I wonder whether, perhaps, in your response you might just give a little bit more information about how confident you feel that this rough £100 million will be enough. Obviously, if we end up with fewer claims than that, then the Welsh Government's a winner. I do take on board your point that you will make sure that there's a transfer of assets that meets it, but because we don't know whether there could be some dreadful claims lurking out there that we're not going to know about for another five or 10 years, how confident do you feel that you've got the number about right when it comes to planning that future, going forward?

I appreciate you can't give us that much of an update on the discussions with the Medical Defence Union, but, again, they're one of the biggest players, and I think that having them on board is absolutely key. If the Medical Defence Union are sitting in their offices watching this by any chance, I'd like to say to them, 'Please can you come to the table to make this happen?' I say to you, Welsh Government, 'Make it happen', because I do think it's vital for the workforce out there in primary care. It will help with every single thing that can help with the retention of workers in primary care—of GPs. It is absolutely vital, and this is a real tool that might persuade people to stay longer or to defray their expenses if they come back on a pro-tem basis to help out.

I'd be very interested to know whether you think that there's going to be any issues with any cross-border effects because of this, because, obviously, we have a very porous border in some parts of Wales. I am pleased that you've come to an agreement with the Medical Protection Society.

Finally, I would like to reiterate—I think they were comments that Dai Lloyd made—our view at the end of this report about the rising cost of clinical negligence. Every time there's a clinical negligence claim, the NHS has to pay it and it comes out of what we need to do—it comes out of beds, nurses, doctors and primary care. So, I would urge you to constantly give us updates and to, perhaps, once a year come back to just let us know about what you've been able to do to encourage the UK Government and all of the other Governments of the devolved nations to really come together to try to address the root cause of how eye-wateringly expensive some of these medical negligence claims are, because that's where the real difference, long term, will be made. Thank you.