5. What steps does the Minister intend to take to ensure that the Welsh Government's forthcoming budget prioritises preventative spend? OAQ54726

We fully recognise the importance of preventative spend, and it's been considered by all Ministers in their budget planning and will be reflected in our 2020-21 budget. In terms of last year, we invested, for example, £15 million in mental health services, including the new whole-school approach to mental health and well-being.

Thank you for that answer, Minister. You'll be aware that it has been a constant theme of the budget scrutiny by the Children, Young People and Education Committee that the Welsh Government needs to do more in terms of preventative spend, and, indeed, in terms of the scrutiny of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee. And the figures that you've referred to—and I heard your answer to Llyr Gruffydd as well—are small numbers in comparison with the whole budget that you're playing with. Would you agree with me that there is much more that we could be doing in terms of prioritising preventative spend, and do you also agree with me that the most important preventative spend any Government can make is in the education of our children and young people?

Yes, I recognise the points that Lynne Neagle has made, and that's one of the reasons why Welsh Government was so happy to acknowledge, recognise and accept all of the recommendations in the recent report that looked at school funding and is already starting to take forward some of that work in terms of the work that the leading education economist Luke Sibieta is doing in terms of the analysis of total spend in schools to ensure that we are allocating our spend to education in the way that is getting the most for those children and young people.

The education main expenditure group at the moment stands at £1.7 billion for 2019-20, and then we would obviously recognise that the vast majority of funding for schools, of course, goes through the regional grants straight to local authorities. But I think there are important things we can do to support children and young people alongside that as well—so, the work that we're doing to expand the food and fun programme throughout the summer, to ensure that children and young people don't fall backwards, compared to their peers, in some communities over the course of the summer, and also doubling the investment in the pupil development grant access fund to £5.1 million. I think it's really important, again, in terms of supporting families and trying to put more money into the pockets of those individual families. And taken together with the pupil development grant, it means that we're investing over £98 million in 2019-20 to support some of our most disadvantaged learners. That's important for exactly the reasons that Lynne Neagle said, because investing in children at the youngest age is the most important preventative spend that you can make, because putting children on the right path and ensuring that they have the opportunities to fulfil all of their potential is the best way to ensure that they have good lives ahead of them.

I listened to the numbers that you have just laid out for Lynne Neagle. They sound big and they sound great, they sound like there's an awful lot of money, but the reality is: is it enough money for the amount of requirement that there is? One of the concerns I have is about how we are targeting our preventative spend in the health sector.

I asked a question along these lines last week to the First Minister. I asked it again yesterday, and the Minister for Health and Social Services took First Minister's questions. I do not see, and I do not have a sense, that there is a sea change in the planning for the health budget—that the health spend should start to, if you like, go on a different trajectory and go towards primary care, community care services and preventative spend. When you meet with groups and cross-party groups where you hear that social prescribing is being knocked out of the window because the facilities aren't open—. There seems to be no joined-up thinking that says from health to social services and to local authorities, 'Let's keep this swimming pool open—that's a good social prescribing area. Let's keep these play parks open, and let's do this and let's do that.' You talk the talk, but there's little evidence that the funding is walking the walk.

What can you do or say to reassure us, rather than just say—? I appreciate you've got these pots of money, but they're not growing in real terms. It's about the whole cultural imperative that says that what we need to do is spend our money on stopping people from being unwell and helping them so that they do not, in the end, end up in hospitals, long-term care, with chronic conditions.

I think that there's always an important balance to be achieved in terms of the preventative agenda and then actually dealing with the health issues that are presenting themselves to the health service today. I know that Angela Burns recognises that, actually, the preventative agenda is very much a longer term kind of agenda, and it takes a long time to turn the ship that we've already got at the moment.

I think that work we are doing across Government—so, the extra investment we're putting into active travel is really important. So, this year alone we'll be increasing the budget for active travel to £34.5 million, and then £30 million further again in 2020-1, because we know the important role that physical exercise and just being out and about in the fresh air can have in terms of your physical well-being and your mental well-being.

So, it is important that we work in that joined-up way across Government, and that's one of the reasons why we've taken the approach this year of looking at our budget through the lens of those eight priority areas. So, mental health is there, early years is there, housing is there—all of those I think have a really, really strong preventative focus. I hope that when Members see the narrative that goes alongside our budget, which we'll be publishing on 16 December, they will get a really clear flavour of the preventative work that is going on across Government.