Well, let's be clear—the five operational objectives that provide a framework for Cwm Taf's IMTP plan include: to improve the quality, safety and patient experience, and to provide strong governance and assurance. Now, Dai Lloyd has already raised the evidence that we had from the director of community mental health and primary care at Cwm Taf over Parc prison. We're not questioning the fact that, in fact, G4S are supposed to be the ones running the community services; what he has responsibility for is governance, to ensure that those services are being delivered. And yet, his response to most of the committee questions was, 'I don't know. I don't know. I don't know', despite the fact that they've had that prison, not only in their care since the beginning of this year, but there's been an 18-month lead-in to it. So, it's all about the governance, and this has been brought out again by the joint Wales Audit Office and HIW report, which absolutely slates the lack of governance and audit control within this health board.

In your Cabinet paper, on 27 March, you said that all of the IMTPs of all of the health boards had been subjected to a robust assessment process. How, Minister, did you or your officials not pick up on this tsunami of concerns? Is the reality that, for the last few years, Cwm Taf has been held up as the grade A health board, the lodestar, the ones that all other health boards should try to emulate, and it couldn't be allowed to fail? Because there is beginning to smell a systemic issue throughout this health board. And before you come back with some quick quip on this, I'd like to remind you that even the maternity services oversight panel interim report is very clear, as is David Jenkins very clear about the fact that this is a cultural change that has to happen throughout the whole health board, that there are systemic issues, and the governance arrangements, if nothing else—which is one of the things in that IMTP that they waxed lyrical about, and say is absolutely spot on—are poor. Their audit committee hasn't met for ages, to discuss some of these issues. So, Minister, I'll just ask you this: did you look at Cwm Taf's performance robustly and dispassionately? Did you look but did not see? Did you look, did you see—did it not matter?