Will you give way? Referring to the comments previously regarding community trusts, actually, previously, the Welsh Government did have a programme for this, delivered with Keith Edwards at the Chartered Institute of Housing Cymru, when he was the director, and with the Co-operative Centre for Wales. I went to the launch of this in Rhyl West, for example, initially hosted by a housing association, with the objective of transferring to a community trust, but the problems encountered were where there'd been a failure initially to properly co-productively engage with that local community, and that must come first, I hope you agree.