Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 5:53 pm on 4 December 2019.
I respect that point, and I think Plaid had been clear that they're not suggesting a broader sell-off in the way that some people perhaps on the Corbyn side have done. To address the point they make, I think the single largest expansion of the private sector into the NHS was the diagnostic and treatment centres brought in by the Blair Government. They were legislated for, in England at least—[Interruption.] Indeed, the First Minister makes the correct point that they weren't brought in in Wales. I won't take that intervention; I need to make progress. What they did do is—they were introduced in England in 2003 and they had a mixed record. I'm not here to defend them. I think they had some limited success in reducing waiting lists in particular areas, but I think some of the criticism of them for cherry picking the easier cases was also justified. But in terms of any trade impact of those, I don't see how it would really bite, because in this country, we haven't tended to be protectionist within the public sector. There are, within the EU, rules about that, but we haven't tended to exclude non-EU providers. Some areas where compulsory competitive tendering—indeed, it required equal access for overseas countries. We tend to give it anyhow.
No doubt, in a trade deal with the US, we would like to break down some of their Buy American Act provisions within their public sector, but overall, I don't think our public sector is particularly protectionist. And if, for one of those diagnostic and treatment centres, a US provider had come in and offered to do it on a cheaper or higher quality basis than other providers, I presume that the Blair Government would have accepted that. Having made a contract with that provider, would we then want that to be sort of ripped up by a future Government? I would expect our courts, in any event, to protect an overseas investor in that context, and I doubt the US will be much concerned about that in the way it was with the transatlantic trade and investment partnership, because of concerns about some European courts in some countries, they don't necessarily—[Inaudible.] I will briefly take that intervention.