3. Statement by the Minister for Environment, Energy and Rural Affairs: Clean Air Plan

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:16 pm on 10 December 2019.

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Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 3:16, 10 December 2019

Thank you, Andrew R.T. Davies, for that very long list of comments around the consultation that I have launched today. I will try my best to answer all your questions. I have to take task with him about his lambasting of the Welsh Government. It's good to see the British Lung Foundation here in Wales recognising the good work that we have been doing. I'm very pleased about the plan, whereas the Tories' plans in England were described by the British Lung Foundation as a missed opportunity with risks of going backwards. So, I'll just put that out there straight away. However, it is nearly Christmas, so I'm very pleased that you are happy to work with us around that.

Certainly, I do remember David Melding's paper, and I'm very happy to work with you. We don't have all of the answers. Certainly, this consultation, I hope, will bring forward some really good responses that we can take forward. We've had the programme, I'm launching the planned consultation today, and then we will have the clean air Act. I heard what Andrew R.T. Davies said about the Act, and the fact that we are not proposing it during this Assembly term. I have committed to producing a White Paper before the end of term. I know that you said that we will blame Brexit. Well, Brexit is a massive issue for my department. You know that my department is absolutely, completely embraced in European legislation and funding and regulation, et cetera. So, it has taken a focus away from things like this. I would love to bring a clean air Act forward this term, but I am committed to a White Paper.

I have to say, legislation isn't the answer to everything. We do have levers that we can use, and I think that we have made significant progress over the last couple of years. One of the things that we've been doing as a Welsh Government in relation to air quality and improving air quality is building an evidence base that we didn't have before. A lot of the time, we looked to the UK Government because they were the ones with all of the evidence. But, I think that we now have the climate emergency, we have the biodiversity issues that you referred to, and the air quality. While there is overlap, they are three very separate things that we have to bring together.

Some of the things that we have been doing—. You'll be aware that local authorities currently have powers to introduce low-emission zones, for instance, and clean air zones, so that is already available; they don't need further legislation to be able to do that.

You referred to incineration. Obviously, waste doesn't sit with me, but I've had several discussions with Hannah Blythyn, the Deputy Minister for Housing and Local Government around incineration and what we can do. And, of course, we are a responsible nation. We have to deal effectively with our non-recyclable waste in a way that prevents it from polluting the environment or sees the problem being exported. I think that it's very important that we take that responsibility. So, while the incineration of waste material for heat and power is higher up the statutory waste hierarchy, if you like—it's above landfill—I think it is a transitionary step. We need to find a solution to move away from single-use plastics, for instance, and I know the Minister is looking at banning or restricting certain single-use plastic products. 

You raise a very important point about woodland. We haven't been planting the number of trees that we would have liked to have done, but again, you will see an increase in that, because I'm ensuring that that does occur.

In relation to domestic combustion, this is a really interesting area, because obviously that's indoors, that's where people are, and unfortunately the air can be polluted. So, I've been asked the question, 'Are you going to ban wood-burning stoves?' No, we're not. But, what we need to look at is the fuel that's used. So, for instance, we are looking to ban wet wood because we know that the fire obviously has to work even harder to produce the heat, so to look at people using dry wood. If people use wood with varnish or paint on, for instance, that can obviously increase the chemicals. So, I'm going to consult on proposals shortly to ban or restrict the sale of wet wood and traditional coal also, because we know some of the Welsh anthracite smokeless coal, for instance, is actually considered to be a clean product. 

In relation to the World Health Organization guidelines, I know that you have raised this with me before and I think I answered that we don't know yet whether it's possible to achieve the WHO guidelines absolutely everywhere across Wales, or how it could be achieved at all, really. So, we are looking at that. We do comply with current legislative limits for particulate matter in Wales, but if you look at the guidelines, I think that's about 50 per cent more that we need to look at. So, it's something that we will look at very, very closely. Again, we'll consult on new targets for particulate matter in Wales, and that will take account of the WHO guidelines as part of the development of a clean air Act for Wales. 

Your last question around transport—you'll be aware that the Minister for Economy and Transport will be brining forward a transport strategy that will have a focus on rural areas. He's also got the buses Bill coming forward. I absolutely agree, we want to see behavioural change with people from that mode, from the car to public transport, but for that to happen, the public transport has to be there. So, again, I've been having discussions with the Minister about all aspects, also around taxis, for instance, and using more low-carbon cars. So, once the strategy is published, you'll be able to see the link between those.