Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 5:47 pm on 7 January 2020.
Can I thank the Minister for her statement today, and in particular her appreciation of the committee's work and the recognition that she thinks we actually have provided some sensible recommendations? But I have a few questions. The thing that's been pointed out—and I think it's important for us to remember—this is not about leaving the EU, that's done and dusted, we all know that, I'm trying to actually make that clear, but this is about how Wales can benefit once we have left the EU and to ensure that any trade deals that take place are to the benefit of the people of Wales and not detrimental to the people of Wales. That's crucial for us to understand that. Forget the arguments, this is about our future and getting it right.
Minister, in your statement, you identified a few things, and I'd like to ask a few questions related to that. You talked about the JMC trade, and Delyth Jewell has already raised a question on that. It is important how far we're going on that, because we were told in the committee many times that this was being discussed, we're still not there. We are weeks away from departing the EU, when negotiation will then start on the future relationship, and we need to understand where we are with that and where the UK Government is with that and what they see it as. Because Europe has its own negotiators ready, Michel Barnier has been appointed and he has appointed his deputy. Their side is ready. Where is our side in the sense of the devolved nations?
Therefore, are you also having discussions with your Scottish counterparts to ensure that there's an unanimous voice together going into the meetings of the JMC to put this on the agenda, to make sure that Welsh and Scottish voices, and Northern Irish when they get into an Executive, are going to be heard as part of the negotiating process? Because I think it has been mentioned by the First Minister before—having that opportunity to have a say in the negotiating position is far more beneficial to all the parts of the UK than having to be told at the end of it all. So, as I said at the beginning, being able to go with it and therefore be part of it is going to be hugely beneficial to the whole of the UK, full stop.
You also mentioned trade-offs. The question, I suppose, is what type of trade-offs will be acceptable, and will the Government come back to the Assembly to discuss those trade-offs, because what might be acceptable to Government may not be acceptable to the Assembly. And I've got an example, because we talk about data—data is an important commodity, but will data and transfer of data be one of those trade-offs? So, will we have—? People have data, businesses have data. But, if you pass that data on to certain companies in certain countries, who knows where it ends up? So, the question is: what is the trade-off, and will you come back to the Assembly with your consideration of what is acceptable as a trade-off?
Will the Welsh Government be reviewing EU laws and regulations? Because you mentioned regulatory alignment, and it is likely that in a future relationship we will diverge. Otherwise, why are we leaving if we're not going to diverge? So, there will be divergence. But how will we in Wales look at those EU laws and regulations and will the Welsh Government be acting, through the statutory instruments, because I think the First Minister mentioned that yesterday, to keep regulatory alignment where we have devolved responsibilities so that our exports can meet still the regulations that the EU will be operating, even if the UK doesn't keep regulatory alignment?
Will you be operating through the Brussels office to strengthen the relationship with the EU? Because, once we're outside the EU, we will not have a direct link into the EU, but the Brussels office becomes an important component of the role Welsh Government have in setting up a discussion with the EU. We might not be negotiators, but it's always about influencing, talking, having an opportunity to expand our position so that the negotiating side on the other side of the table have a wider picture.
You also talked in your statement about the stakeholder advisory group. Can I ask where the information that you intend to give that will come from? Is that going to come from the UK Government? So, if you're going to give that information to the advisory group and ask for their opinions, will that be coming from—? Because it's all on the negotiations. Where will it come from? Will the UK Government be giving you the information that you can pass on to the advisory group, and will you be allowed to share that with the Assembly? Because very often we are told sometimes that Governments give Governments information and we can't pass it on because it's confidential. So, how will we know what the stakeholder group is doing and is it doing it properly—how can we scrutinise those processes?
You've talked about the Trade Bill and the amendments, and it's been mentioned by Delyth—and Darren—what happens if the amendments aren't accepted, but, first of all, the first question is: is the new Trade Bill the same as the old Trade Bill? Because we've seen changes in the EU withdrawal agreement Bill. Do you have any indication as to whether there will be changes in the Trade Bill? Because that Trade Bill did require an LCM; a new Trade Bill, an amended Trade Bill, might not require an LCM. So, have we any pictures of where the Trade Bill is at this point in time, and is it going to be the same one?
I think it is important for us to remember one thing, particularly on these benches. The transatlantic trade and investment partnership was a big issue. It was actually defeated by the European Parliament—they ruled certain things out. As mentioned, the investor-state dispute settlement issue was a huge matter. And it doesn't have to be the US, by the way, because Sweden is doing it to Germany now. We don't want a repetition of that, and therefore there is an important aspect as to how institutions across the UK—the Scottish Parliament, the Welsh Parliament—have an opportunity to have a say on such things. I personally wouldn't want to see TTIP being enacted in any agreement here, but there's a very strong possibility that that might be reintroduced by the Americans, who, as we all know—and Donald Trump said it in his inaugural speech—put America first, and they will look to see exactly what they can do with that process. We need to be vary wary of these matters.