4. What steps is the Welsh Government taking to improve public transport in South Wales Central? OAQ54944

Thank you. We continue to work with Transport for Wales and with local authorities to transform our transport network not only in South Wales Central, but across the whole of Wales, so that it truly does become sustainable and fit for future generations.

Yes, thanks for the answer. I was just trying to say, there was a little bit of discussion yesterday about the proposed congestion charge—that you're going to be involved in compiling the report with Cardiff county council, and that's good news, that there is going to be some hopefully meaningful liaison between the two of you.

Now, could I just raise one of many issues that you may need to consider? It's connected to something that a couple of your own party's Valleys Members have raised recently, which is people who can't get into Cardiff in time for work due to the problems of late services or changes in services, and they're facing sometimes disciplinary procedures in their workplace. This seems somewhat archaic because, in many offices, output can be recorded and monitored. I don't see the need in all cases for people to be at work for 9 o'clock. I wonder is there any chance of incentivising companies in Cardiff to allow more flexible working, which could possibly look at the issue from a demand side, and possibly reduce the demand for transport at peak hours into Cardiff.

The Member very much sounds like an advocate for the fair work agenda, actually. What we are doing through the economic contract is encouraging employers to behave more responsibly, not just for the environment and for future generations, but for their existing workforce. As a result of the economic contract, we expect businesses to be able to demonstrate how they're improving the well-being and mental health of their workers, and we're already finding that this particular intervention is incentivising businesses to apply those sorts of flexible working structures that the Member has outlined.

The Member also mentions the work that the Welsh Government will be commissioning concerning the future of road management and demand management. I think it's absolutely essential that work takes place because the UK Government will have a very big question to contend with in the coming years, and that is what they do with vehicle excise duty and fuel duty. The transition to ultra-low emission vehicles will mean that the potential duty taken in terms of VED and fuel duty will fall dramatically. At the moment, it amounts to something in the region of £35 billion a year. That's between 4 per cent and 5 per cent of revenue for the UK Exchequer. If, as we expect, the transition to electric cars takes place more rapidly as we move towards the end of the decade, then that revenue take will fall dramatically, and the UK Government will have to do something in order to address it. That's why I'm very keen to ensure that our work dovetails with any work that's being undertaken by the UK Treasury or Department for Transport.

Obviously, with the climate emergency that is facing us, we all understand the need to rapidly decarbonise our travel. The white paper that Cardiff Council has produced, looking at travel around the city, is clearly part of that agenda. But I'd like to associate myself with some of the comments raised by some of my other Labour backbench colleagues from the south Wales Valleys. My concern is that this cannot, if it goes ahead, be a tax on some of the most challenged communities around Cardiff where, currently, public transport is not effective in getting people into the city and to their place of work. Even when the metro is fully up and running, Minister, I am concerned that the statistics show that there will still be a huge volume of people who need to use their cars to get into the city—unless, of course, we can crack the problem of bus travel. So, I'd like to know your views about, in particular, the mention in the white paper of the regional express bus project and how bus travel might be a crucial part of this agenda moving forward.

Can I thank Vikki for her question? I very much agree that, in terms of the proposals that have been made, it's absolutely essential that we need to undertake detailed consideration and examine all equality and fairness issues, not just in terms of how a congestion charge may apply, but also how any revenue raised from it may be spent. In regard to the vision of improved bus services, not just within the city, but also in the region, I very much welcome that strong, bold vision that the council has been able to provide.

Obviously, the Government has various levers that it can pull in the public transport field and transport models that it can support. The Anglesey air link, obviously, is one model of public transport I would suggest that is supported by the Government, and I have to say, the service has improved dramatically over the last 12 to 18 months, and uptake has been enormously popular on this route. The environment Secretary, in her interview on Sharp End, highlighted that, actually, because of the declaration of the climate change emergency, this is an area of public expenditure that the Government should be reconsidering. Is that Government policy, to reconsider the subsidy that it makes available on that air route, bearing in mind the comments that the environment Secretary made on Sharp End on Monday?

In light of the fact that we have declared a climate emergency, of course, in future years, when we consider whether to continue this service, we'll be paying more attention to the emissions that are caused as a consequence of operating the service. But, in the meantime, I am pleased that the Member has recognised improvements in that service. It provides a valuable service for many people in Wales, but there is no doubt that, just as we are doing with all other forms of transport support through the Wales transport strategy, we will be looking at low-carbon transport as a priority area for Welsh Government investment.  

I want to return to the question of buses, which is a particularly important mode of transport in areas, like the Rhondda Fach, that are without a single train station and have a bypass that stops halfway up the valley. This wouldn't be so bad, of course, if the bus service was brilliant, but it isn't. In fact, I think it's fair to say that, at times, it's abject. The routes to Cardiff can take two hours, as most journeys—with the odd exception—can call at nearly 100 stops along the way. A night out in Cardiff is off limits, if you rely on public transport, for anyone living in the Fach. So, understandably, people feel completely cut off, and they deserve better. Can you provide further information about how the Government plans to improve bus transport for places like the Rhondda Fach and indeed the Rhondda more generally? Are you confident that the proposed London-style bus system, which aims to encourage operators to bid to provide services, is the solution to these problems?

Can I thank Leanne Wood for her question? I do share her concerns over a lack of opportunity for many people in many remote areas to be able to access work and services, because of the lack of available bus services or because they're too expensive for people to use. It's true to say that the buses Bill will make a significant difference in terms of allowing local authorities greater power to be able to intervene and, indeed, to run services themselves. It will ensure that the primary motive for running bus services in Wales moves from driving profit to meeting passenger expectations. I'm confident that the Bill will go a significant way to improving local bus services in Wales. In addition, as I said in response to Dai Rees, it's absolutely vital that we plan services on a regional basis more so that we can get people from Rhondda Fach to Cardiff quicker and with more reliable services, and also, that we ensure that the future subsidy regime amounts to additionality and not replacement funding. 

Should the economy Minister not have been clearer in his letter to his party's leader of Cardiff Council that, in seeking to raise money for public transport, it is wholly unacceptable to structure a charge in such a way that it is only paid by people outside his council area, while everyone inside the area is completely exempt? 

I think I've made it very clear not just through the letter but also in my answers today that any such proposal—and at the moment, it is only an idea—is applied in a fair way; that a proposal such as this does not lead to communities feeling that they are being pitched against one another; that they're interests are in some way being prioritised below or above another community; that everybody feels that they are benefiting from a regime of this type; and that everybody is equally contributing to it. 

I stated in my letter to the leader of the council that I'm very keen to work with the local authority and with the region's authorities in examining the mechanisms by which we can accommodate the needs of the travelling public, but also make sure that we respond adequately and appropriately to the climate crisis. And that means that we do need to turn the dial in terms of inspiring modal shift not just in this region, but across Wales.