8. Debate: Stage 4 of the Children (Abolition of the Defence of Reasonable Punishment) (Wales) Bill

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 6:49 pm on 28 January 2020.

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Photo of Helen Mary Jones Helen Mary Jones Plaid Cymru 6:49, 28 January 2020

No, I'm sorry, Darren, I don't have time. I might in a moment.

We passed this in principle 18 years ago, so any suggestion that the Welsh Government is rushing this—. Again, I feel—I'm rather disappointed that it's taken so long. Janet Finch-Saunders again mentions the New Zealand survey, which I pointed out last week was nothing more than a survey, and it was bought and paid for by the very campaign that had campaigned against that in the first place. So, that is not research, That is not scientific legislation.

Now, I want to address those two groups of people who I think are concerned about this legalisation, and the first people I want to talk to are those who really have some genuine concerns around the implementation. And to them, I will say: it will be all right. Fifty-eight nations have done this already. This is the new normal.

It began in 1979 with Sweden. None of those countries have seen those things that people are concerned about. None of them have seen kind and caring parents demonised. None of them have seen criminal justice systems overwhelmed. It simply hasn't happened. Fifty-eight nations, Scotland most recently, and it's a matter of sorrow to me that Wales wasn't there before them.

Today we will become the fifty-ninth, but to those with genuine concerns, I say, 'Look at the experience; look at what has happened.' Essentially, what has happened is that good parenting has been promoted in those nations. In those nations where this has been in operation for a very long time—Sweden is the example—it has actually led to a de-escalation of violence in families, of serious violence in families.

So, today we move to give our children their article 19 rights, their right to be protected from violence. As we do this, I want to focus on those who oppose this legislation from the point of view of intrusion into family life. Well, you know, we intrude into family life on a regular basis. There was a time when it was lawful in this nation for a man to beat his wife with a stick so long as it was no thicker than his thumb. I do not believe that children are the property of their parents. We have a fundamental, philosophical difference here. Children do not belong to their parents. They are citizens in their own right.

The UN Convention on the Rights of the Child places upon us all a duty to support them in their growth and in their development. Today we as a nation will exercise that right. We will give them at last—at last—equal protection against violence under the law. I am looking forward to this and I commend this legislation to this Chamber, but more importantly to this nation.