Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 4:31 pm on 29 January 2020.
No, I don't agree. I accept the first part of the Member's statement, particularly with reference to Theresa May's Government and the way it acted. It's not for me to defend Theresa May's Government, but I would note that it was also the behaviour of the Labour Party in the Commons that led to the situation we had. And I'm afraid I doubt the sincerity of many of those MPs who were effectively seeking to block Brexit by voting against any deal, intending to vote against any deal—even when they were given everything they'd been asking for, including a customs union, they demanded more. And they gambled on trying to block Brexit, elect a Corbyn Government, and then have a second referendum and win, and it be remain, so we stay in the EU. Now, we can judge how sensible or otherwise that gamble was, and I think that was the reference to the bankrupt gamblers that you heard—[Interruption.]—that you heard earlier.
But—but—in the spirit of magnanimity, I would like to accept the sincerity of what you said today, David, because I think it's in the interests of all of us that we seek to move on and to make the best of Brexit wherever we individually came. And I accept that those who—. I think five sixths of the Chamber voted remain compared to the one sixth of us who voted to leave. I do not denigrate the patriotism of those who made a different assessment as to the advantages than I did, and we shall now seek to move forward together and get the best we can for Wales and for the United Kingdom.
On which note, I move to Dai Lloyd's speech. I thought it was very revealing, the exchange that he had with Andrew R.T. Davies. He didn't actually object and say the UK was taking more powers than the EU; it was the fact that it was the UK Government rather than the EU that he objected to. And I take a pragmatic approach on this and support 4c of this motion,
'establishing a new approach to regional investment', because it's important to recognise that that money, whether it's specifically for regional development funds or whether it's to fill that £15 billion fiscal gap that we have in Wales, comes from the rest of the United Kingdom and primarily from England. And the aim of regional development is to try and lever up areas that are at the time they're receiving that money less well off. And I think there is a role for the UK Government, and also a very full role for the Welsh Government. And those roles will be different than they were within the EU structures. And, overall, I would be happy to see something where the relative powers and influence of the UK Government on the spending of regional development money coming from the UK in Wales is no greater than that that was taken by the EU, but I think we should have a pragmatic approach to try and make that work.
Dai refers to the 2011 referendum and to the 2016 referendum, and I think one issue that we have is, because of the last three and a half years and how this Assembly has acted, and the motion after motion after motion to expressly, or, in effect, block Brexit, when Wales voted to leave, for many voters, that has reduced their assessment of this place and their attachment to our National Assembly. And I think we need to recognise that. And that's happened again. Whatever the rationale that was given at the vote, voting against that LCM and then saying how terrible is the UK Government's pressing ahead despite all three devolved legislatures voting, or administrations voting—being—against it, ignores the fact that Wales voted to leave the European Union. That is the deal. It's not particularly a deal that my party thinks is a great deal, but it's the deal that's there. It's a lot better than Theresa May's deal. We're coming out, we're going to have Brexit—