As with others in this debate, before coming to the Assembly, I had direct experience of the criminal justice system having been a solicitor in a legal aid practice dealing with criminal law, amongst other matters. So I do have direct experience, seeing people who were accused in my office, in police stations, in prisons and, obviously, representing them in court. I must say that I would echo much of what I've heard here today in terms of criticism of the system. I do believe that it's unproductive, wrong-headed and, indeed, immoral in the way that it operates. Our First Minister said that we would do things, were we to have devolution, differently and better, and I'm absolutely convinced that that would be the case. I believe that it would, in fact, be difficult not to do things better than the current system, and I have full confidence that we would obviously go far beyond that yardstick in delivering criminal justice differently here in Wales. 

I think Leanne Wood made a very strong case. I was going to mention many of the matters that Leanne did in terms of who is at the receiving end of the inadequacies and the failings of the criminal justice system. I believe, in terms of social class, in terms of ethnicity, in terms of gender, we see people who are disadvantaged suffering further disadvantage through the way that the system operates. I think it's a widely held view that we could do much, much better. It's crazy, isn't it, for Wales to be imprisoning more of its people than virtually any other part of western Europe? What that does is brutalise people; it ruins their life chances when they're incarcerated unnecessarily, it leads to more victims of crime because of that brutalisation and a lack of effective rehabilitation given the state of our prisons, which are so overcrowded and the people in there are struggling to deliver a service, struggling to rehabilitate and doing that in conditions that make it very, very problematic indeed. So it really is nothing short of a horror story and we really could do so much better. That would be such a benefit to people unnecessarily imprisoned, their families, our communities and, of course, victims of crime, because if people are not being rehabilitated properly because the service cannot operate within the conditions that exist, then there are going to be future victims of crime and many more victims than need be the case. 

We also know, don't we, that many of the people in our prisons have mental health problems, they have substance misuse problems—illegal drugs and alcohol. Many of them are illiterate and innumerate; their skills are very low. These are people who are being failed by the system and are then, in some cases, imposing further misery on society in general because of that system failure.

I think, given that sort of background, Llywydd, it really is difficult to perceive of a devolved system that would not lead to very substantial and meaningful improvements. And, of course, a compelling case is made by the justice commission and Lord Thomas in terms of how we could operate so much more effectively. So, I think with that background and what we've heard from most of our contributors to this debate today, we badly need devolution of justice in Wales. If we're not to achieve that in the short term, indeed, then we're going to see these failings replayed endlessly with all the misery and suffering that is involved for our communities. The case is strong and, I would say, unanswerable, and I'm just really impatient, as I know many others are here today, Llywydd, to see progress on this report and to see implementation of the recommendations, even if it is in terms of those that are more immediately deliverable in the short term, to be followed by further progress thereafter. We need to see this change and we need to see it as quickly as possible.