Questions Without Notice from the Party Leaders

1. Questions to the First Minister – in the Senedd at 2:00 pm on 11 February 2020.

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Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 2:00, 11 February 2020

(Translated)

Questions from the party leaders. Plaid Cymru leader, Adam Price.

Photo of Adam Price Adam Price Plaid Cymru

Will you sack the chief whip?

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

Sorry, I didn't hear, either. And if the leader of the Brexit Party could be silent, then maybe we could have heard the question.

Photo of Adam Price Adam Price Plaid Cymru

Will you sack the chief whip?

Photo of Adam Price Adam Price Plaid Cymru

Your predecessor had to face a similar predicament, of course, when Leighton Andrews campaigned against a school closure in his constituency. He did then resign. The similarities between the two cases are much more striking than any differences, though the protest there was outside the Senedd, not in the constituency.

The Labour source quoted by the BBC today says that this is a clear breach of the ministerial code. Now, I completely understand why Labour backbench Members want to campaign against health closures under your Government, but surely the position of Ministers is different. Accountability for the health service must lie with Ministers collectively in the Welsh Government, otherwise what is the point of the Welsh Government? And in seeking to have it both ways, in enforcing a self-denying ordinance when it comes to ministerial intervention in the case of A&E at the Royal Glamorgan, but giving carte blanche to Ministers when it is politically convenient to intervene in relation to constituency matters, you're eroding trust in politics and in this institution. So, I ask you again, First Minister: will you remove the chief whip from Government, or are you saying that what she has said on the ward closure now reflects Government policy?

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 2:02, 11 February 2020

Well, Llywydd, I've seldom heard more nonsense spoken in this Assembly. Now, I took the trouble to bring the ministerial code with me. I don't suppose the Member took the trouble to read it; he's not a man for detail, as we know. But let me acquaint him with the detail of the ministerial code. Here it is—he groans at the thought of being informed so that he can ask a better question next time because his question this afternoon is just—. The minute you look at the ministerial code, you will see that his question has absolutely no substance at all. Here is paragraph 4.7 in the ministerial code:

'Ministers are free to make their views about constituency matters known'.

They can do it by writing to the responsible Minister, by leading deputations or by personal interview. What the Member for the Vale of Glamorgan did is entirely consistent with the ministerial code. I know because I took the trouble to check it before this afternoon. And let me tell you this: you aren't a Government Minister for 20 years in devolution without understanding what you can and cannot do in your constituency and ministerial capacities, and the Member for the Vale of Glamorgan has a better understanding in her little finger of the probity and decency required of Ministers than his question this afternoon demonstrates for a moment.

Photo of Adam Price Adam Price Plaid Cymru 2:04, 11 February 2020

Yes, I did take the opportunity to read the ministerial code, and it's quite clear in the ministerial code that Ministers cannot campaign against Government policy. This ward closure was a direct result of your own Government policy. That's the point. You're in danger, on the NHS, of turning double standards into an art form, of having your cake as a Government and eating it as an opposition. It's your policy that led to this proposed closure. The chief whip is campaigning against your own Government policy. In other Parliaments, in other contexts, as chief whip, she'd have to have a stern word with herself; maybe remove the whip from herself. You couldn't make it up, First Minister, except that you do, time after time, when it's politically expedient to do so. Whatever happened to collective responsibility?

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour

Well, the truth, Llywydd, is that I'm not making it up, but he certainly is. There is no conflict at all. The ministerial code—. Llywydd, let me just explain to the Member just one more time. What is at the heart of the ministerial code is this: nobody's constituents should be advantaged because their elected Member is a Minister; nobody's constituents should be disadvantaged because their elected Member is a Minister, and Ministers are completely free, in the terms of the code, to act as the Member for the Vale of Glamorgan did on this occasion.

Five different times during the period of this institution, constituents in that part of Wales have had an opportunity to choose their representative, and they've chosen the same person every time. I think they will go on doing that, because they know that she understands how she can best represent their interests and be a Minister, and a very effective Minister in the Welsh Government, and nothing at all that has been said this afternoon casts any doubt at all on her actions.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 2:06, 11 February 2020

(Translated)

Leader of the opposition, Paul Davies.

Photo of Paul Davies Paul Davies Conservative

Diolch, Llywydd. First Minister, what specific actions is your Government now taking to support the more than 12,000 survivors of domestic abuse in Wales?

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour

I thank the Member for that important question. The Welsh Government has taken a series of actions, following the passage of the Violence against Women, Domestic Abuse and Sexual Violence (Wales) Act 2015 put on the statute book here. We have trained record numbers of staff in public services to make sure that they are able to ask and act, as we say, to make sure that people recognise the potential of domestic violence, to ask people whether that has been part of their experience and then to act on it. We have provided funding, both for the training of public sector workers, but also for services of people who find themselves victims of domestic violence. As the Member will know, the fourth phase of a very successful awareness campaign on coercive control was launched at the start of this year, and we look forward to that campaign having even further success beyond the success it demonstrated in 2019.

Photo of Paul Davies Paul Davies Conservative 2:07, 11 February 2020

Of course, First Minister, it's been four years since the Violence against Women, Domestic Abuse and Sexual Violence (Wales) Act 2015 came into force. I asked you earlier about what specific actions your Government is now taking to support survivors, because, at the end of last year, the Auditor General for Wales's report into domestic abuse made several recommendations on improving services for people going through domestic abuse. Now, crucial in providing the right support is mapping an accurate picture of service provision and ensuring a joint pathway of support, so that survivors don't have to navigate a complex and fragmented system.

The auditor general reported that there was a postcode lottery of provision, with some survivors stating that they were overwhelmed by the number of agencies, while some fell through the gaps, and some have reported inconsistencies in information from different agencies. Of major concern was the 431 survivors who were not able to access a refuge. Now, shortly after the report was published, your Government stated that it welcomed the report and its recommendations, but you needed time to reflect on those recommendations. Can you therefore tell us when you will be responding to this report, given that you've had nearly three months to respond to it? Can you also give us an indication of what you'll do differently as a Government in light of this particular report?

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 2:08, 11 February 2020

I thank the Member for those important follow-up questions. The Government's response to the report has already begun to be formulated. We will draw together all the different threads in a more formal way, but the national advisers' quarterly report, which was a request of the Equality, Local Government and Communities Committee— that our national advisers, the two of them, publish their reports on the Welsh Government now every quarter, not just annually—their quarterly report in December demonstrated a series of actions that they and the Welsh Government are taking to respond to some of those important points in the WAO report, particularly about complexity, particularly about the difficulty that individuals can have in navigating their way to where help might be available for them. That quarterly report demonstrates the additional activity that has been carried out on regional collaboration and on aligning devolved and non-devolved responsibilities. It shows three workshops that are being carried out in January to March of this year, each one of which will be chaired by one of the national advisers.

They are reviewing all the local strategies that have now been submitted under the Act. They are working with Public Health Wales and with police and crime commissioners in order to make sure that the real efforts that are being made by public services in Wales to respond to this agenda can be co-ordinated better, and simplified from the point of view of the user, to make sure that anybody who is in need of help in this very serious policy area can find their way to that help as fast and as easily as possible. 

Photo of Paul Davies Paul Davies Conservative 2:10, 11 February 2020

I appreciate that response, First Minister, but I am concerned about the continuing delays associated with the 2015 Act, because your Government has now taken more than four years to actually lay national indicators following that specific Act. And we on this side of the Chamber want to work with you to ensure that the national indicators and the objectives of the national advisers on domestic abuse are absolutely appropriate. However, I am concerned that the objectives don't appear to focus on a major area of helping to increase victim confidence and access to justice, especially as four out of five women do not report abuse to the police. Overall, the auditor general found that only 60 per cent of organisations believe that they have put in place appropriate performance measures for the Act, with fewer than 65 per cent using victims' and survivors' dissatisfaction to improve services. First Minister, can you therefore reassure us today, and indeed the people of Wales, that your Government will improve the speed of your actions around this horrific aspect of life for many people in Wales?

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 2:11, 11 February 2020

I thank the Member for his indication of cross-party support here for the actions that lie behind the Act, and everything the public services are trying to do. It's 18 months since the fieldwork that lay behind the WAO report was carried out, and I think that a series of things have been put in place since then. The annual report of the national advisers referred to real momentum over that period. None of the recommendations in the WAO report were for the Welsh Government; they were all actions for service providers to take. But I want to give him an assurance, and people in Wales who take an interest in this, that we continue, as a Government, to invest in this area extra revenue, extra capital in the draft budget in front of the National Assembly, and to respond to it with the urgency that this agenda really deserves.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 2:12, 11 February 2020

(Translated)

Brexit Party leader, Mark Reckless. 

Photo of Mark Reckless Mark Reckless Conservative 2:13, 11 February 2020

First Minister, last night, a few miles south-east of here, councillors voted by 18 to 17 to block Bristol Airport from expanding any further as they say it would exacerbate the climate emergency. With Bristol Airport set to hit its 10 million passenger limit next year, does the First Minister welcome this opportunity for Cardiff Airport to expand its flights and serve passengers who would otherwise have gone to Bristol?

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour

The opportunity that I have always seen for Cardiff Airport, Llywydd, is not to add to climate change by having more aeroplanes in the sky, but it is to divert to Cardiff passengers who currently have to travel beyond Wales, adding to the carbon footprint as they do so. There are real opportunities, if the UK Government will work with us on this agenda, to allow people who currently travel to Bristol, but also further afield for long-haul services out of Birmingham or Manchester or Heathrow, to have those services here in Wales, not to add to climate change, but to prevent the journeys that, at the moment, are adding to the carbon that we all produce. 

Photo of Mark Reckless Mark Reckless Conservative 2:14, 11 February 2020

I hear what the First Minister says in response, but on climate change, the future generations commissioner has observed that

'The steps the government are taking at the moment do not appear to match the declaration of a climate emergency.'

Some taxpayers may welcome that in view of the amount of money you've put into Cardiff Airport; if Cardiff Airport expands to take flights that Bristol bans, perhaps Welsh Government may, at some point, see a return on its money. And if those flights don't go from Bristol, surely it's a case of people who would otherwise have gone to Bristol, including from the west of England and beyond, who may instead travel to Cardiff, with the carbon dioxide emissions that implies, to use flights that we could accommodate at Cardiff.

You also pledged grants of £18.8 million to Aston Martin to build gas-guzzling SUVs near the airport at St Athan. You even celebrated the announcement of 4,000 petrol DBXs a year by pretending to be James Bond in a video. How does that square with your climate change priorities?

Meanwhile, you've announced £140 million of capital climate change funding, yet you've no plans to switch the suggested £1 billion annual revenue funding you would need to meet your climate change targets. Indeed, the draft budget provides for bus subsidy to be cut next year in real terms. First Minister, as effective action is so expensive, will you continue to prioritise words over action on climate change?

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 2:16, 11 February 2020

Well, Llywydd, if it wasn't for the fact that satire is so clearly dead, you might have thought that the Member had had a humour by-pass. There is no need for us on this side of the Chamber to be taking lessons on climate change from a party that is festooned with climate change deniers, whose grasp of the seriousness of the problem facing the globe is so out of kilter with the seriousness of that issue. This Government is absolutely committed to playing our part in making sure that we take the actions that we can take to hand on this planet to those who come after us in a condition that would not make us ashamed of the way that we have discharged our responsibilities in the brief moment that they lie in our hands. That's what we will do, and I don't think we will find many lessons from his party in doing so.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 2:17, 11 February 2020

(Translated)

Question 3 [OAQ55097] is withdrawn. Question 4, Joyce Watson.