5. Will the First Minister make a statement on the Welsh Government's proposed new water rules to tackle pollution? OAQ55104

I thank the Member for that, Llywydd. Agricultural pollution affects the health and quality of our rivers, lakes and streams across Wales. Clean water is essential for all our lives. We must take proportionate, targeted action to address the problem. The Minister will make a statement on the way forward shortly, in the light of the evidence.

Thank you, First Minister, for that response. In light of the evidence that became available to Members last week from a freedom of information request that the National Farmers Union secured out of Natural Resources Wales, the evidence that they'd submitted to the Minister's department in respect of the regulatory impact assessment highlighted that the Government's proposals could have a perverse outcome and actually exacerbate the issue around pollution and dirty water going into watercourses. Can you, after I asked the same question a month ago to you, First Minister, confirm that you have become conversant with all the proposals that Welsh Government are talking about, and that any statement that the Minister will make will be made on the floor of this Chamber, not in a recess period, because of the magnitude of what is being talked about here? As NRW have talked about, instead of just looking at the two options that the Welsh Government looked at, which was a 'do nothing' approach, or a cut-and-paste exercise around nitrate vulnerable zones, the Welsh Government should have considered other options. That statement needs to be tested by Members in this Chamber, and those concerns from the regulator itself be taken into account.

Well, Llywydd, I can give the Member an assurance that the concerns of the regulator were taken into account. That's why they were being asked to share in the effort of reviewing the draft regulatory impact assessment, alongside other stakeholders, and, when the regulations are published, there will be the final RIA published alongside it for Members here to see. The reason why regulations are necessary is because we go on, week in and week out, seeing incidents of agricultural pollution here in Wales. That is not acceptable; it harms biodiversity, it harms public health, it harms farm incomes, it harms drinking water, and we have to take action. The points that the regulator made will be reflected in the RIA, and there will be ample opportunity for Members here to question Ministers on it once it has been published and they've had a chance to consider it.

Nobody's questioned whether there's a need for regulation. The question here, of course, is the proportionality of those regulations. Not even Natural Resources Wales agree with your Minister's approach for a whole-Wales designation, and it's certainly been a matter of concern and correspondence for a huge number of my electors.

I raised with the Minister last week in questions serious questions about the evidence base that the proposals that we've seen thus far are based upon. We really need an opportunity, I think, when the final regulations are tabled, to really robustly test those here in this Chamber. You told us that a statement will be made shortly. I'd like to think that this Government isn't as cynical as to slip out a written statement over half term. At the very least, in the interests of transparency and accountability, we should have an oral statement here. Anything short of that would be a dereliction, really, and wouldn't be acceptable. This is the single biggest issue that I've had correspondence on from my electors for many, many months. If you just try and do it that way, I think that would be abhorrent.

Well, Llywydd, there will be ample opportunity for Members here to ask questions and to raise concerns, as Members are doing here this afternoon. There will be no absence of opportunity for Members to carry out their job of scrutinising and questioning Ministers.

On the issue of nitrate vulnerable zones, many times when I've answered questions here I've been lectured by Plaid Cymru Members on respecting the advice of the UK Committee on Climate Change. The Member will have seen the advice of the UKCCC on 23 January 2020, in its 'Land use: Policies for a Net Zero UK'. The very first policy that it says we have to introduce is low-carbon farming practices. It says that before 2023 the extension of nitrate vulnerable zones must be extended to cover the whole of the United Kingdom.

Now, he shakes his head there, because he wants to be selective. You see, he wants to lecture me about making sure that this Government takes the advice and acts on it, and then accuses us of not acting quickly enough on it, but when he doesn't like their advice, he wants us to reject it. We won't be doing that, Llywydd. We rely on the advice of the UKCCC, and their advice on this issue is clear and explicit.

I've written to the Minister for environment asking for a meeting with farming members of NFU Cymru to discuss these regulations, and I'm awaiting a response. I think the questions today demonstrate a need for scrutiny of these regulations. I've held meetings with Caerphilly NFU members and with the Farmers Union of Wales to discuss their concerns. On smaller farms, such as those in Bedwas and Llanbradach, the regulations, as originally proposed, would have an intolerable financial burden.

However, we also need to address problems such as the industrial-scale slurry-spreading operation run by Bryn Group at Gelliargwellt Uchaf Farm that is causing problems for people in Gelligaer and Pen-y-Bryn. I've met with Natural Resources Wales and Caerphilly council, and they feel that there is a gap in the regulations there that prevents them from taking action in those cases.

Therefore, I think we need to find a balance—a sensible balance—between not disadvantaging and harming those farms like Bedwas and Llanbradach and dealing with industrial-scale farms like Gelliargwellt Uchaf Farm. Can the First Minister give us an indication of how a sensible balance can be met?

I thank Hefin David for that. He's right, of course: we want a balanced and proportional approach. But, the way you get balance and proportionality here is by having a single rulebook that you then apply differentially in the different circumstances of different types and natures of farms. That is what the Welsh Government has been working on, and when we're ready to publish the regulations, that is what the Member will see. But it is not one rule fits everybody. It is a single and common set of rules, but the way that you apply them will be proportionate and balanced, and will reflect the needs and circumstances of particular farms and the extent to which they make a contribution to the very real problem of agricultural pollution.