Questions Without Notice from Party Spokespeople

1. Questions to the Minister for Education – in the Senedd at 1:40 pm on 12 February 2020.

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Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 1:40, 12 February 2020

(Translated)

Questions now from the party spokespeople. Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Siân Gwenllian. 

Photo of Siân Gwenllian Siân Gwenllian Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

Thank you, Llywydd. We are aware that recruitment and retention of teachers is a challenge in Wales, and in other nations too, and there are a number of reasons behind this, and we need to tackle the problem in a number of different ways. Welsh Government statistics show that 40 per cent less than the target set for trainees in the secondary sector are in place, for example, and recent reports by the Education Workforce Council demonstrate that there are more assistants than teachers in our schools now. Now, I know that you're highly aware of this problem, which has been discussed over a period of years in this Chamber, so, how confident are you that we will see this situation improving over the next few years?

Photo of Kirsty Williams Kirsty Williams Liberal Democrat 1:41, 12 February 2020

Well, Siân, you're absolutely right. This is an issue that is common to education systems, actually, across the globe and was the subject of much debate when we hosted the Atlantic Rim Collaboratory conference here in Cardiff back in the autumn. There is no one single thing that we can do to address these issues, but to outline some of the actions this Government is currently taking, we have agreed a new approach to promoting teaching as a career with the Education Workforce Council and hopefully—not long now—Members will be able to see adverts on a variety of platforms highlighting the important and the rewarding career that teaching is.

We are looking at new ways in which we can support qualification for teachers. So, the Member will be aware of the recent accreditation of the Open University scheme to train teachers. We're looking particularly there to attract career changers—those people for whom perhaps a traditional way of qualification is not appropriate, but have a desire and a passion to teach. The Member will also be aware of our recent scheme, for instance, to allow Welsh-medium teachers in the primary sector, who perhaps have not been able to find work in that particular sector, to convert to be able to use their skills and their passion in the secondary sector.

So, there are a variety of actions this Government is taking to address the issue of teacher recruitment. But, of course, once they are recruited into the profession, we also have to work harder to maintain them in the profession and we're taking steps in that regard also. 

Photo of Siân Gwenllian Siân Gwenllian Plaid Cymru 1:43, 12 February 2020

(Translated)

Thank you very much, and I do look forward to seeing the upshot of that work, because the teachers are our most important, valuable asset in our schools, of course.

Given the million Welsh speakers strategy and the importance of Welsh-medium education to the success of that particular aim, the recruitment of teachers who can teach through the medium of Welsh is a specific concern, isn't it? Statistics from the statistical bulletin show that only 17.5 per cent of students in their first year of initial teacher training in 2017-18 were training to teach through the medium of Welsh, with the numbers relatively equal between the primary and secondary sectors, as it happens.

So, I do warmly welcome what I read in the press last week, namely that it is your intention, and the Welsh Government's intention, to ensure that partners do work towards ensuring that 30 per cent of those recruited to all initial teacher training programmes should be teachers who would be able to teach through the medium of Welsh. So, this afternoon, I would just like a little more information on this policy. Will you expand upon your rationale for setting that target, and why do you think that setting this target is an effective way of increasing Welsh language skills within the education workforce?

Photo of Kirsty Williams Kirsty Williams Liberal Democrat 1:45, 12 February 2020

Well, Siân, you're absolutely right: recruiting more Welsh-medium teachers is a vital component of our aim to reach 1 million Welsh speakers by 2050. The requirement for teacher training providers to work towards training 30 per cent of teachers to teach through the medium of Welsh is an important instruction to them, and the Education Workforce Council, of our intention to be able to ensure that we have the right staff to respond to that target, but also to respond to the parents of Wales, who increasingly are looking to choose a Welsh-medium education for their children, and to respond positively to that. It's not the only initiative, as I referred to, but I'm grateful for the Member's support for that, and indeed the various supportive comments from Cymdeithas yr Iaith, for instance, as an important indication of this Government's intention in this regard.

Photo of Siân Gwenllian Siân Gwenllian Plaid Cymru 1:46, 12 February 2020

(Translated)

Certainly, we are pleased to see these targets being put in place. It's something that we've been calling for for some time, and we do see it as a positive step forward. I would like an assurance from you that you will be monitoring delivery against that target. Perhaps you can confirm today that you will have a system to monitor progress so that the target is truly meaningful. You have now set this target for one specific area, namely prospective teachers, and it's clear that the Welsh Language Commissioner and others believe that what you have done with prospective teachers is a good precedent for other areas. So, can you tell us this afternoon about expanding this practice of setting targets in order to enhance bilingual skills? Are you in favour, for example, of rolling out this practice of setting targets for the future workforce in areas such as health and care, and other areas within your portfolio in terms of HE and FE?

Photo of Kirsty Williams Kirsty Williams Liberal Democrat 1:47, 12 February 2020

Well, Presiding Officer, I'm not in charge of health and care, but I think what's important for me is that if we are to respond, as I said, proactively to the demand that there is out there for Welsh-medium education, if we're to meet that target, then the first important element is our teaching workforce. The Member joined me and other Members recently at the event organised by our coleg cenedlaethol. We are working collectively with them and our FE partners to increase the availability of Welsh-medium FE tuition, building on the very real success the coleg has had in terms of expanding Welsh-medium tuition in the HE sector.

It is absolutely an important principle to me that we give children and young people in Wales a Welsh language continuum, from our childcare offer through to access to our nursery schools via the mudiad, into Welsh-medium schooling, and then for them to be able to continue to develop and use their language skills in both an FE and an HE setting wherever possible.

We will continue to look to ensure, in other aspects of education workforce, that we address the linguistic needs of staff, whether that be, for instance, our teaching assistants, our nursery assistants in the mudiad, or other professionals who work with our children and young people. It's really important from an equity point of view that we continue to work as hard as we can to address those linguistic skills of professionals who work alongside our children and young people.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 1:49, 12 February 2020

(Translated)

Conservative spokesperson, Mohammad Asghar. 

Photo of Mohammad Asghar Mohammad Asghar Conservative

Thank you, Presiding Officer. Last month, headteachers in Wales called on the Welsh Government to revise its draft budget proposals for education. The National Association of Headteachers Cymru said that the proposed expenditure on education set out so far does not come close to repairing the damage done by years of Welsh Government underfunding. Schools are in deficit positions, struggling to retain good teachers and support staff, and they could face difficulties in delivering the new curriculum. Minister, why have you refused to commit to spending more money directly on schools, and will you agree to ring fence the consequentials arising from the UK Government's announcement of additional spending on primary schools in England for education in Wales?

Photo of Kirsty Williams Kirsty Williams Liberal Democrat 1:50, 12 February 2020

In all my dealings with headteachers' unions and with teachers' unions, Oscar, I have to say their first concern is the inability of your Government in Westminster to give this Government an appropriate level of public expenditure. One very real example, Presiding Officer: we received no consequential this year to pay for the teachers' pay rise. We were short-changed again this year to pay for teachers' pensions, which is not a devolved matter. It was the finance Minister, working across this Government, that had to fund the shortfall, and that's money that could have been spent on other aspects of education, but we've had to find that money for the non-devolved area of teachers' pensions to address the shortfall.

Let me be absolutely clear to the Member, we have worked hard to give Welsh local government, who are the main funders of our education system, the best possible settlement, as well as significantly increasing the amounts of resources that are in the education main expenditure group. I could do so much more if his Government would give Wales a fairer deal.

Photo of Mohammad Asghar Mohammad Asghar Conservative 1:51, 12 February 2020

Thank you for that answer. [Laughter.] NAHT actually blamed you, not us.

Minister, you recently released a progress report on the £36 million grant made available to reduce infant class sizes in Wales. Under the scheme, funding is provided for new school staff or extra school rooms for pupils aged from four to seven years old. However, most schools that appointed teachers to cut infant class sizes say that they will not be able to keep them when this grant ends. Given that reducing class sizes is, in your words,

'a key strand of our national mission to raise standards and extend opportunities', how do you intend to further reduce class sizes in Wales now?

Photo of Kirsty Williams Kirsty Williams Liberal Democrat 1:52, 12 February 2020

First of all, Presiding Officer, I don't want the Member's thanks for answering his question, what would be more useful to me is if he did something about it and had a conversation with his Westminster colleagues.

With regard to the class sizes reduction fund that we have made available to schools, I'm glad that the Member recognises that, first of all, small class sizes can be really beneficial to teachers and children. He is absolutely right: in the report, teachers have expressed their concern about what will happen once that grant comes to an end. That grant is safe until the end of this particular session of this Senedd. It'll be for the new Senedd to look at the evidence and to listen to teachers and parents about the importance of that grant, and I would hope to see it continue.

Photo of Mohammad Asghar Mohammad Asghar Conservative 1:53, 12 February 2020

Schools are required to protect pupils from radicalisation and extremism as part of their safeguarding duties. An Estyn report said recently that most schools had an understanding of their role and responsibilities in this regard; however, in a minority of schools, leaders do not perceive radicalisation and extremism as relevant to their schools or surrounding areas. They went on to say that staff in these schools may miss an opportunity to identify and address early concerns about a pupil. Minister, what action will you take, in the light of Estyn's finding, to ensure all schools in Wales meet their obligations to protect pupils from radicalisation and extremism in Wales? 

Photo of Kirsty Williams Kirsty Williams Liberal Democrat 1:54, 12 February 2020

I very much welcome Estyn's thematic report and draw the Member's attention to the good practice in schools already delivering very positive actions, whilst also accepting the recommendations in areas requiring further improvement. For instance, we are funding the Welsh Extremism and Counter Terrorism Unit, working in partnership with the all-Wales school liaison core programme, to produce videos and resources on preventing radicalisation and extremism to be delivered in schools by our school beat officers. We are currently revising our 'Keeping learners safe' guidance to ensure that any developments in the Prevent agenda are fully reflected. The message that Prevent falls squarely under the safeguarding umbrella is clearly articulated in the updated guidance that we will publish later on this year.