Questions Without Notice from Party Spokespeople

2. Questions to the Counsel General and Brexit Minister (in respect of his Brexit Minister responsibilities) – in the Senedd at 2:28 pm on 26 February 2020.

Alert me about debates like this

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 2:28, 26 February 2020

(Translated)

Questions now from the party spokespeople. Conservative spokesperson, Darren Millar.

Photo of Darren Millar Darren Millar Conservative

Diolch, Llywydd. Minister, can you tell us what action the Welsh Government is taking to increase the number of EU citizens that are applying for EU settlement status under the scheme?

Photo of Jeremy Miles Jeremy Miles Labour

Certainly. That scheme is a scheme of the UK Government; it is not a scheme that we would have designed had we been in control of how it works, but we recognise that it is the scheme that is available. As a result, we've been taking a number of steps in order to support EU citizens living in Wales to apply to the scheme. We've, I think, committed around £2 million most recently in relation to funding advice services. Some of that is through organisations such as Citizens Advice; some of it is of a much more technical nature through an immigration law firm. We've funded local authorities to support their own communities locally; and we have a communications strategy, including a digital communications strategy, to increase the numbers applying. We take every opportunity, including myself, this week, with Home Office officials, to impress upon them the need to make sure that communications across the UK do everything possible to encourage the maximum number of applicants.

Photo of Darren Millar Darren Millar Conservative 2:29, 26 February 2020

Thank you for that response. I know that you and I both want to see as many EU citizens as possible that have chosen to make Wales their home stay here in Wales. But I think what is concerning is that figures that have been released by the House of Commons Library show that, as of last month, just 71 per cent of EU citizens based here in Wales have actually applied to the EU settlement scheme, and that's compared to 93 per cent elsewhere in the UK. So, obviously, there's a significant difference in terms of people taking advantage of the scheme from Wales, and I want to better understand why that is the case. Have you done any analysis as a Government as to why people might be having more difficulty in accessing the scheme, or taking advantage of the scheme to a lesser degree here in Wales versus other parts of the UK?

Photo of Jeremy Miles Jeremy Miles Labour 2:30, 26 February 2020

The most recent Home Office figures actually show Wales as the second of the four nations of the UK in terms of numbers of applications. Obviously, we want to see 100 per cent of eligible citizens applying, and we would hope and expect that the UK Government would share that ambition as well. Part of the issue, we believe, is in relation to the UK-wide communication strategy, which has focused on cities, and, of course, there are more cities with bigger populations of EU citizens in England than there are in Wales, where the populations are more dispersed. We think that's one of the aspects to the situation. The other aspect is perhaps the number of Irish citizens within that overall envelope of EU citizens. Obviously, Irish citizens living in Wales don't need to apply to the scheme, and we think that may be part of the factor as well. But we are absolutely clear that although this is a reserved scheme, not a devolved scheme, we are putting Welsh Government budget into maximising the number of applicants.

We've worked successfully to persuade the UK Government, for example, to increase the number of digital centres in Wales, from one to, I think, seven at the moment, and for them to be spread across Wales. We've worked hard to make sure that that's happened and to increase the number of support centres generally. But I know that he will share my ambition to make sure that 100 per cent of applicants in Wales are able to apply and succeed in applying. 

Photo of Darren Millar Darren Millar Conservative 2:31, 26 February 2020

I note what you said regarding recent improvements in these figures, and, from the information that I have, it does suggest that, from December to January, we saw an 8 per cent increase in the number of people applying here in Wales for the scheme. But, notwithstanding that, the average across the UK is 93 per cent of citizens versus this 71 per cent here in those latest published figures. Now, I welcome some of the action that has been taken. You rightly refer to the fact that there has been a focus on communications in cities by the UK Government, and that that needs to be supplemented here because of the different nature of the population spread across Wales. But, obviously, I think it is a concern that we only have 71 per cent of people who have taken advantage of the scheme so far.

Can I ask what communications or discussions the Welsh Government might have had with local authorities about specifically boosting their role in reaching out to the diaspora communities within their respective areas, because, obviously, they have a key role, I think, given their interface with these communities on the ground? And given the limited resources of some local authorities, is there more that perhaps the Welsh Government might be able to do in order to assist them?

Photo of Jeremy Miles Jeremy Miles Labour 2:33, 26 February 2020

Well, the meeting I had earlier this week with a range of stakeholders around Wales and Home Office officials, included representation from the Welsh Local Government Association. Most recently, we've made funding available to each local authority to support their efforts in addition to the Wales-wide efforts that we are making, so that local authorities have the capacity to do it themselves within their local areas. One of the features of these figures is that it seems to be the case that there's a higher chance of getting settled status in Wales than a pre-settled status than in other parts of the UK. One of the great sources of concern for most EU citizens applying to this scheme is the very high number of pre-settled status grants in circumstances where we would expect to see settled status being granted. And it's difficult to overestimate, I think, the kind of anxiety that comes with that. For many people, engaging with this sort of migration policy bureaucracy is the first time they've ever had to do that. And, so, it is incumbent on the UK Government to make that as straightforward and as supportive, and to maximise the chance of those who are eligible getting their settled status and protecting their rights here.  

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 2:34, 26 February 2020

(Translated)

Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Dai Lloyd. 

Photo of David Lloyd David Lloyd Plaid Cymru

Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. Minister, plainly, continued international co-operation is needed for the frictionless trade of health products across UK-EU borders in the future, post Brexit. Now, around 45 million patient packs of medicines are supplied from the UK to the EU and European economic area countries every month, and, in return, over 37 million patient packs of medicines come from the EU to the UK every month. Yet, without any future regulatory alignment, as announced by the Conservative Government in Westminster, can I ask you: what could possibly go wrong?

Photo of Jeremy Miles Jeremy Miles Labour 2:35, 26 February 2020

He identifies a very live example, it seems to me, of some of the problems that we may well face unless the negotiations with the European Union conclude in the kind of agreement that minimises the barriers to international freight and to trade, which are so important in many aspects of our economic life, but, as his question also makes clear, the life of our citizens in a very direct way, in terms of public services. I can assure him that we take every opportunity—have taken every opportunity—to press the case on the UK Government, not only to seek to minimise tariffs and quotas in their negotiations, but also the kind of non-tariff barriers, which his question identifies as a significant problem. 

Photo of David Lloyd David Lloyd Plaid Cymru

Can I thank you for that answer? Moving on to another aligned issue, a substantial proportion of UK employment law, as we've already heard, originates from the EU, including the European working time directive. That is what stopped doctors from working 120 hours every week down to around 58 hours over the years. So, can I ask: what discussions are you having about protecting employment rights for workers in Wales post Brexit? 

Photo of Jeremy Miles Jeremy Miles Labour 2:36, 26 February 2020

Well, the political declaration, as the Member may recall, was clear that both parties—both the United Kingdom Government, at that point, and the European Union—were committing to maintaining standards, in terms of workplace rights and so on, which were in place at the end of the transition period. That was a feature of the political declaration. 

He will, I'm sure, share with me the concern at reading speculation requests and in speeches, in fact, given by the Prime Minister and others, about the potential upside, as they would describe it—and he and I would describe it as the downside—of weakening labour regulation as a consequence of leaving the European Union. Those sorts of ambitions and aims are not ones that we share in this Government and would not be widely shared across this Chamber. We believe that the kind of relationship that people in Wales will expect into the future is one that enables those labour standards to be maintained, both in Wales and the UK, and for there to be a commitment to do that so that we can take advantage of that level of alignment to support our economy into the future.

Photo of David Lloyd David Lloyd Plaid Cymru 2:37, 26 February 2020

Thank you for that. Going on to another field, anyone who has attended the annual National Social Care Awards here in Cardiff will know that social care is a skilled profession. In fact, the examples on show every year in that awards ceremony show a very high level of skills. But obviously, social care is plagued by low pay and has fallen foul of the UK Government's points-based immigration system as a result. Now, Wales relies on the EU social care professionals, as it is, in an already overstretched system. So, what representations are you making about social care in Wales post Brexit?  

Photo of Jeremy Miles Jeremy Miles Labour 2:38, 26 February 2020

Well, I thank the Member for highlighting that point. When I met with the chair of the Migration Advisory Committee, the social care sector was exactly one of the sectors that I identified to him as being at risk from the sorts of migration policies that were being floated by the UK Government at that point and that have been confirmed in the most recent announcement. We had hoped, as a Government, that the UK Government would be persuaded to bring forward a set of migration policies that would support the economy and public services across the UK. That has not been the case, and as a consequence of the salary threshold and the skills threshold, amongst other things, sectors such as the social care sector, but, indeed, others in food production, in logistics and in certain parts of the manufacturing sectors, will be concerned about their capacity to staff their services and businesses into the future.

And I want to make one point in relation to the remark at the start of the Member's question. He and I will both know, and many in the Chamber, if not, sadly, all, will not recognise the term 'low skilled' in the context of the care sector. Anybody who has had exposure to the kinds of support and skilled support that many of our people who are cared for receive will recognise that those are very skilled roles indeed.