The following amendments have been selected: amendments 1, 3, 4 and 5 in the name of Darren Millar, and amendment 2 in the name of Rebecca Evans. If Amendment 1 is agreed amendments 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 will be deselected.

Item 7 on the agenda this afternoon is the Plaid Cymru debate on adverse weather and storm damage, and I call on Leanne Wood to move the motion. Leanne.

Motion NDM7278 Siân Gwenllian

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Notes the damage and devastation caused to communities across Wales as a result of Storm Ciara and Storm Dennis.

2. Pays tribute to the heroic efforts of public service workers and community volunteers in responding to the effects of adverse weather and storm damage in recent weeks.

3. Recognises that climate change will make adverse weather occurrences, including instances of serious flooding, more likely in future.

4. Calls on the Welsh Government to:

a) initiate a full independent inquiry into the causes of recent flooding, in addition to conducting a review of the sufficiency of its overall adverse weather prevention plans;

b) ensure that additional support is made available to those experiencing psychological trauma as a result of the recent devastation, especially children;

c) ensure that the hardship fund for those individuals affected by adverse weather and storm damage ensures parity for businesses and homeowners, especially those without insurance;

d) clarify the status of grant support available for land reclamation;

e) explore the possibility of introducing a low cost social insurance scheme with the aim of ensuring affordable property insurance cover everywhere in Wales;

f) request a comprehensive assessment from the National Infrastructure Commission for Wales of the measures that would be required to reduce the annual risk of flooding in Wales to 1 per cent, 0.5 per cent and 0.1 per cent and to increase expenditure to this end.

Motion moved.

I want to use this opportunity that this Plaid Cymru debate brings to follow on from yesterday's statement on flooding. I raised a number of issues in the Minister's statement yesterday that were not dealt with in her subsequent response. So, I want to return to those matters today and to raise some more issues that time did not allow for yesterday.

The first matter relates to Natural Resources Wales and the question of liability. This was a particular issue in Pentre, where I was again this morning with local councillors and Plaid Cymru's leader, but it's not just confined to that town. The tonnes of debris washed off the mountains that blocked the main culvert in Pentre was also a factor in other communities, such as Ynyshir and Blaenllechau. I would like to invite the Minister to visit communities like Pentre, Blaenllechau, Treorchy, Ynyshir, Ystrad, Porth and Trehafod to see the aftermath of the floods, and to see the scale of what people face to get back on their feet. 

If the next time, Minister, you come to the Rhondda you come with me, I'll make sure you speak to people who can explain to you very clearly the impact on their lives of what they believe to be Natural Resources Wales's actions or inactions. Perhaps you could also bring representatives of Natural Resources Wales with you. Such a visit will help you and officials to see why we need an independent inquiry into the causes of the flooding across the Rhondda and further downstream. An internal review conducted by Natural Resources Wales will not be good enough. 

Rhondda communities are demanding that Natural Resources Wales acknowledge their mistakes in leaving such large quantities of material on the mountain and, in some places, changing watercourses through the use of heavy machinery on the mountains without remedial works afterwards. For residents to receive justice, there needs to be an admission of liability on the part of NRW. They also want you to acknowledge that the guidance under which natural Resources Wales has been working to in relation to tree felling is no longer fit for purpose. It needs looking at again, and if you agree with me on that point, Minister, I'd like to hear from you how quickly you think such a review could be undertaken.

As Minister with responsibility over Natural Resources Wales, will you support steps to begin this process? While people are struggling to piece back their lives, there can be no lengthy delays to any part of this process. So, I ask you to act swiftly in terms of accepting liability, instituting an independent public inquiry and reviewing Natural Resources Wales's tree-felling guidance. Lessons have to be learned so this can never happen again. Where tree felling occurs, timber should not be left lying on the mountain in such large quantities. Watercourses, if disrupted through logging operations, must be reinstated.

I saw a prime example of this in Blaenllechau where a stream entered the property through the back door and left by gushing out through the front door. The woman living there told me that the watercourses above her home had been altered as a result of these tree felling operations. Naturally, she is concerned that this surge of water through her home will become the norm in heavy rain from now on until work is done to put matters right.

So, on behalf of this resident and many others, will you, Minister, ensure that these changes are implemented as soon as possible and that work is taken to reinstate whatever damage has been caused to watercourses on hillsides and on mountains? Not only do we have to put things right that have been damaged or altered, but we also have to futureproof our communities from further flooding. The climate crisis means we have to readjust and recalibrate everything we once thought was normal. Scientists are telling us that extreme weather events like large storms within quick succession will become more commonplace. We have to be more ready next time.

How do we further protect our communities, then, and our people? We must begin by looking at a programme of upland tree planting on the land especially that belongs to the Welsh Government. Where the land is privately owned, the occupiers need to be incentivised to plant and grow indigenous trees. We also have to seriously call into question planning policy that allows houses to be built on land that can be vital in the fight against flood prevention. We must also have a comprehensive and regular drainage and culvert cleaning programme.

The flooding not only damaged homes, it also damaged vehicles, and some are not covered for flood damage through their insurance policy. This is detrimental to everyone, but especially people who were relying upon their vehicles for employment purposes. In the light of that, will you consider granting people who have been affected by this free public transport, perhaps an extension of the free bus pass to those who have been affected? People have suffered enough; they should not have to pay extra to go back and forth to work.

There also needs to be consideration of the people who have lost their works vehicles if they're self-employed tradespeople. These people have not only lost their homes but they've also lost their livelihoods, and some will be left without their tools as a result of the flooding. So, I'd urge you to consider how people in that situation can best be helped.

I asked a number of other questions yesterday that did not get an adequate response. I asked about help with energy bills and packages of support in line with what is available elsewhere. So, I very much hope that these points will be answered through the course of this debate this afternoon. All of these matters are in your gift or in the gift of your Government, Minister. I hope you will address them, and I hope you will take the necessary action that our communities demand and expect.

The Llywydd took the Chair.

I have selected the five amendments to the motion. If amendment 2 is agreed, amendment 3 will be deselected. I call on Andrew R.T. Davies to move amendments 1, 3, 4 and 5, tabled in the name of Darren Millar. Andrew R.T. Davies.

Amendment 1—Darren Millar

In point 2, after ‘efforts of’ insert ‘the emergency services, agency staff,’.

Amendment 3—Darren Millar

In point 4, insert as new sub-point after sub-point (c) and renumber accordingly:

'establish a rates relief scheme to help businesses recover following a flooding event;'

Amendment 4—Darren Millar

Add as new point at end of motion:

Further calls on the Welsh Government to work with stakeholders to ensure that local communities and businesses are provided with continuing support beyond the initial clean-up operation to help them recover in the long-term, and to understand the actions required to mitigate future flooding events.

Amendment 5—Darren Millar

Add as new point at end of motion:

Further calls on the Welsh Government to update planning guidelines by establishing ‘Blue Belts’ in areas of flood risk, such as natural flood plains, to prevent inappropriate development and to reduce the risk of damage to homes and businesses.

Amendments 1, 3, 4 and 5 moved.

Thank you, Presiding Officer. It's a pleasure to move the amendments in the name of Darren Millar: 1, 4, 5 and 3 in this afternoon's debate.

I would just start with the point that I appreciate, in tabling arrangements, you are quite entitled to table 30-minute debates, and I agree with all the sentiments that the opener gave this afternoon, but I do believe such a serious issue does merit a full debate in the Senedd here. It's perfectly within the right of the party to table a 30-minute debate, but it is a little difficult to actually capture all the very relevant points that the opener of this debate did lay before us this afternoon.

So, in the amendments that we have put forward today, I'd just like to say that we stand shoulder to shoulder with the communities that have been affected, both in north Wales and south Wales, because this is a whole-Wales issue that does require adequate response from both Governments and local authorities as well. And the services that have been at the disposal of communities the length and breadth of Wales really has shown the spirit of Wales at its very best, hence our amendment No. 1, hopefully strengthening the point that is made in the main motion.

I do think that, in amendment 3, it is vital that businesses are offered the support to consolidate the cash that they will require to get them over what will be very lean times, in particular over the coming months whilst they await insurance payouts, while they await reconstruction costs, and just basically rebuild some of the business capacity that they've lost because of this flooding. And I do hope that the Government will come forward with a rate relief scheme that will recognise the challenges that many of the businesses in these communities that have been hit—and Treforest industrial estate is a good example—where there's been massive destruction and many other areas across Wales. It is within the gift of the Government to actually come forward with such proposals. So, I very much hope that there'll be support for amendment 3.

I do hope that amendment 4 will carry today as well, because I do think it's vital that whilst everyone's mind is rightly focused on the immediate aftermath of the floods and the devastating impact on houses, businesses and communities, this is going to be one hell of a long haul for those communities and those individuals affected—many people facing six, eight, 12 months out of their homes. Businesses are most probably facing a far longer duration in rebuilding those businesses. And this isn't something that can be shut away because we've had a week—we've had 10 days, we've had a month's focus. This will take many months, many years of focus, and I do hope that amendment 4 will enjoy the support of the Assembly, because it will require Government to take the lead, working with its partners in local government and the health boards and other agencies, to make sure that in three months, in six months, in eight months, in 12 months, that support is very much there and focused on in particular.

And I'd also like to ask the Minister to maybe focus some of the efforts of Government on watching out for scams that have been reported today. Where there's money flowing into communities, especially in volume, and situations that some communities, individuals, aren't used to dealing with, regrettably, in our society, there are people who are prepared to prey on that vulnerability to seek to enrich themselves. And I appreciate it's not a direct responsibility of Government, but working with partners—highlighting the processes that many people will never have had to deal with before and to be aware of people who are just generally going in there to try and rip people off.

And amendment 5—and I appreciate my three minutes are up, but amendment 5—

Thank you for drawing my attention to that. [Laughter.]

It's stating the blindingly obvious, and the point that the opener, Leanne Wood made—you shouldn't be building on floodplains, to be honest with you. Floodplains should be used for the very purpose that they've been designated, which is to help with the catchment of water, not to build houses on. Planning is a wholly devolved responsibility; it is something that we just shouldn't be allowing to happen. And I very much hope that the Minister will give special regard to that because that is something that is within the gift of Welsh Government and can be stopped tomorrow. Thank you.

I call on the Minister for Environment, Energy and Rural Affairs to move formally amendment 2.

Amendment 2—Rebecca Evans

Delete point 4 and replace with:

Calls on the Welsh Government to:

a) ensure that the investigations being carried out into the cause of flooding are published and subject to scrutiny from affected communities, the Senedd and independent authorities, including the Flood and Coastal Erosion Committee;

b) make additional financial and practical support available to individuals and businesses affected by the flooding;

c) make additional funding available for local authorities to conduct emergency repairs of flood defences and other critical infrastructure;

d) publish new planning policy and flood maps this year to take a stronger stance on development in the flood plain and reflect the growing risks from climate change;

e) publish a new Flood Risk Assessment for Wales alongside a new Flood and Coastal Strategy this year and use this to prioritise flood defence schemes that protect the communities at highest risk of flooding from all sources – coastal, river and surface water;

f) increase financial and practical support to local authorities to accelerate the development of new flood defence schemes.

Amendment 2 moved.

Formally.

Delyth Jewell.

Diolch, Llywydd. There can be few things more frightening than seeing your home damaged when you're powerless to stop it. Last week, residents across my region awoke to the devastation of flood damage and have been doing everything they can to piece their lives back together. Now, obviously efforts are focused, for now, on the immediate clean-up, but once the debris is cleared, questions will remain, like why these events were not anticipated by those in power. Now, it's been claimed in this Chamber that the floods were unforeseeable. I'd refute that. This Government declared a climate emergency last year. That was an acknowledgement that rising temperatures make storms of this nature more likely. The storms were foreseeable. Why wasn't more work put into preventing the devastation, and what lessons will be learned?

Now, I understand that the Climate Change Commission for Wales from 2010 were giving advice to Ministers on the need to spend money on adaptations to prevent flooding. The commission was abolished in 2013, and I have anecdotal evidence that the Government had ignored some of the advice given. So, I'd ask the Minister whether the expert advice that was given was followed, if there's a paper trail, and if so, if we could see that advice. I'd ask another question: why is it that people who have least are so often the people who suffer most in these circumstances?

I'm glad that the Welsh Government has offered an extra £500 for households without contents insurance, but that is like a drop in stagnant floodwater. Let's get this straight—the people without insurance hadn't neglected to get cover, they were refused cover because of previous flooding, or told that the premiums were extortionate and unaffordable for them. So, what conversations is your Government having with their UK Government counterparts to bring pressure on the insurance industry to stop refusing cover to the people who need it most? And the Flood Re scheme that exists is welcome, but why did so few people know about it?

I'd ask some specifics to put residents' minds at rest. In Islwyn, the culvert in the Navigation site collapsed, putting a question mark over months of regeneration work that I know the Welsh Government is keen to back. What support can be given to the friends of the Navigation to rectify this and to prevent flooding in nearby residential areas? In Crumlin, highway drainage infrastructure has to be altered or else properties will be flooded again. So, if alterations can't be made, would the Government consider purchasing the properties that are affected?

Finally, residents in Abergavenny are concerned that plans to downgrade their A&E will put them in future danger because the main road to the nearest A&E in Cwmbran was closed during the floods. Now, flooding like this is likely to happen again, so what account of these issues will the Government be taking in deciding whether to stop the closure of that A&E?

Llywydd, no-one is claiming that councils or the Government failed to act to help people affected by the floods through malice. There was no malice, but there was an element of negligence, a failure to foresee the foreseeable. People want assurance that the Government won't be caught unawares again. Minister, can we give them that assurance?

Minister, in view of the limited time, I'm just going to focus on a few questions and so on and issues that really arise as a result of this motion. The first one is that I think it would be very useful to have a public health analysis post these events, not just in respect of the psychological trauma that's been suffered, but we know that many people in the clearing of their homes have had to have additional tetanus injections and also been put on a series of antibiotics. We've seen people with inflammation of their skin in areas where they've had nicks and cuts as a result of this process. Now, this is quite significant and I think it's something that is well worth a public health evaluation.

The other issue, of course, that has been raised, is that of the issue of flood defences. I know, in Ilan, Welsh Government, with European money, invested substantially in containment pits for water running off the hills above Rhydyfelin and that, in fact, has worked very, very effectively. Those flood defences did work, but they were exceeded in some areas and there were certain areas where certain measures might have been taken that would have limited the flooding that did occur—certainly not on a scale that's ever been known before, because it was an area of regular flooding.

The other issue, of course, in areas around the A470—culvert drainage, culvert clearance, is clearly something that has been a bit of a problem. I've written about this to Welsh Government separately. But, clearly, there were homes that were flooded there, not as a result of the River Taff breaking its banks, but as a result of those culverts overflowing, because, I suspect, of, potentially, a lack of maintenance.

Another area that needs to be addressed, it seems to me, is the issue of the placement of large containers and similar sorts of objects in flood liable areas. Because those containers flowing down the river, crashing into bridges, have actually doubled and massively increased the amount of damage. It seems to me that we need to look at the actual planning or the licensing arrangements, or the arrangements that exist for people being allowed to place such objects there.

And then, finally, I have written again separately about this, and that is I think there needs to be a moratorium on proposed planning developments in floodplain areas, with a need to actually review what we understand by 'a floodplain'. Because, quite clearly, there are areas that are marginally outside floodplain areas being developed, but that, in the light of what we now know and we are now seeing, really need to be reassessed. So, we need really a moratorium on developments, because developments that may take place in the next year or two—it's really too late in terms of the subsequent consequences that there may be. So, what I'd ask is that perhaps one of the things that we need to do is to consider the nature of planning and the nature of what we have previously understood as floodplains, and have a review of that.

I won't rehearse the arguments as to why we need to take action on this. Climate change is a reality and we will be seeing more of these unprecedented events in the future. But my region, like many others, has been affected and I've been speaking to people since Sunday who have been severely affected and how their lives have been changed overnight by this instance.

Just in relation to the local issues, I believe—I'm here often criticising local authorities, but I do believe that many in my region have responded really well and we've heard reports of teams from local authorities who were out working double shifts or even longer. One local co-ordinator in the Neath area, named Emma, she's been out in Aberdulais and she hasn't stopped for over a week and she's co-ordinating an enormous community response effort and she's now a pillar of the community. These people across Wales, whether they're workers in the council or volunteers—you can only know in a crisis what you would do and we've seen amazing activity from people across the whole of Wales, I think, who've just got up and rolled their sleeves up and have got active. I haven't been one of them, and I've been criticised for virtue signalling, because I can't get out there. But, believe me, if I wasn't nearly nine months pregnant, I would be out there and I would be helping, as has everybody else here in Wales.

In Aberdulais—Canal Side, I have got many friends who live there. They're right beside the canal. They've been flooded again and again and again, and this time they've had sewage enter at the back of their houses. And what they have been disappointed with is that they're not sure why that has happened, and Welsh Water has still not clarified to them exactly why the sewage has entered their homes. Many of those residents have got sick, as Mick Antoniw has said, as a result.

And if I was scrambling around as an AM, trying to find out—. Public Health Wales were giving me information; NRW were giving me information; Dŵr Cymru—. They just want to know what they have to do in a crisis situation. They don't want to be reading mass documents about how to clean up sewage. They just want to be given advice, and they want someone on hand who has that expertise, as the First Minister said was happening; I didn't see that in my region.

We were also told by Canal Side that, the last time that they had flooding there, there was an emergency meeting at the British Legion—which I wasn't invited to—and that they did promise to have stronger flood defences there. I want to see another such urgent meeting organised with all AMs, all representatives, there, so that we can understand exactly how we can build on the flood defences in that area, looking at how they can be improved so that we can all try and make it better if it happens next time.

The lack of information, I think, was fundamental for them. They just didn't know what time they were supposed to leave their housing. And, if you did look at the sandbags, compared to some other areas of Wales, it was pretty pitiful. They just did not do anything much to help in that regard. Another issue in my region was in regard to the Canal View Café in Resolven. That's now closed as a result of damage and I'm trying to help them find ways that they can rebuild their café and to reopen. So, I would appeal, as other AMs have done here now, for people to be able to assist in that regard and to give them support.

So, of course, we have to discuss the practical elements, but I think, long term, we all want to see solutions and we all want to constructively be part of this discussion, because it won't just affect Neath Port Talbot, Ystalyfera, Rhondda, Cwmbran, it will affect every single area. Because that's what climate change does. It doesn't discriminate based on the parochialisms we may have here in Wales. It will not discriminate on that behalf. It will invade our lives and it will affect us in many, many different ways. So, if we can work together on that, then I would hope that we would be successful.

I call on the Minister for Environment, Energy and Rural Affairs to contribute—Lesley Griffiths.

Diolch, Llywydd. I welcome the debate today regarding the recent flooding experienced by communities across Wales as a result of storms Ciara and Dennis. I think it's another opportunity for us to again thank the tireless work of our emergency services, local authorities, NRW and volunteers in their response to the storms. We've been severely tested in our communities these last few weeks, but I think that the people of Wales have shown extraordinary resilience.

As Members know, the First Minister and I have visited a number of communities affected by flooding, and witnessed for ourselves the devastation flooding causes to families and business owners. As others have said, finding your home or business filled with floodwater is extremely traumatic, and I extend my sincere sympathies to everyone who has been affected by the recent flooding. I and my ministerial colleagues will be continuing to visit communities affected this week and over the coming weeks and months. I think that the way in which those communities have come together in the face of these devastating events is a really clear reflection of the type of response they expect from us all. 

Will the Minister take an intervention?

No, I've got very few—a very short time.

As others have recognised, the scale of the threat to Wales's communities from the climate emergency is very clear, and the frequency and intensity of storm events like Ciara and Dennis is increasing, so it's vital that we drive a more rapid and comprehensive response to the climate emergency. The Government amendment to the Plaid Cymru motion reflects a commitment that I hope this Senedd will share. We must offer real, specific and immediate relief to people at the same time as ensuring that we urgently put measures in place to protect our communities over the longer term.

If I can look at point 4—and I think that this is in response, firstly, to Leanne Wood—the Welsh Government will ensure that local authorities carry out their duty to investigate the causes of the recent flooding. Those reports must be published and will be available for public scrutiny not only by affected communities and independent experts, but by the Members of this Senedd. As Leanne knows, NRW is working closely with RCT to investigate and draw together their findings. I think they should be allowed to do that, and I give you my commitment that I will visit with you and I will ensure NRW come with me at the appropriate time. 

In relation to supporting people, we've found money, as Members know, immediately to help people affected, and have given additional help for those without insurance. We managed to get a system in place very quickly to get that money out through the door to those affected. I know people have already started to receive those payments of £500 and £1,000. Members make very important points around insurance: the UK Government's Flood Re scheme has made it possible for many people who, a few years ago, would have been unable to get insurance against flood damage. But I don't think enough people know about that, so I think that's an area we need to work with the insurance association to promote.

In relation to the longer term, we are working with local authorities around the scale of the damage because, again, we are going to bring forward additional funding in the shorter term and in the longer term. But, as I said yesterday, people will have to be patient, because it could take many months to ascertain the final amount of funding that's needed. We've also invited local authorities to apply for funding to undertake emergency repair works to flood assets. We have said we will fund those by 100 per cent, and my officials are also reviewing the applications received, and will be releasing funding as soon as possible to local authorities and NRW.

Several Members have raised concerns around planning rules and how they should be strengthened so that greater resilience to flood is designed into all new developments, particularly in light of the climate emergency. Members will be aware that we've had a recent consultation on technical advice note 15, and that will bring forward the changes we believe are necessary to achieve that. We will also be publishing a new national strategy for flood and coastal erosion risk management. That will set out our approach in Wales over the next decade, complementing new planning advice and aligning with our natural resources policy, encouraging wider catchment approaches and better information for the public. Somebody else—I think it was Bethan Sayed—made a point around the public receiving better information. This year we will also publish a new flood risk assessment for Wales to inform our decision making using the latest data, and prioritise investment to those communities at highest risk. 

It is already clear that our investment in flood defences in recent years protected 73,000 homes across Wales—9,000 homes on the River Taff alone. I want to increase financial and practical support to local authorities so that we can accelerate the development of new flood defence schemes and natural alleviation projects. We also need to work with our local authorities and NRW to have a look at the flood defences. Every flood defence held, but some only just, and we need to revisit and ensure, if any work is needed to be done, that we do that very quickly.

Andrew R.T. Davies I think made a really important point about scams, because we have seen this, haven't we, in other situations, maybe when people have been made redundant and had significant redundancy money, for instance—we've been aware that scams have taken place, so I think that's a really good point to make. [Interruption.] Sorry—I'm going to run out of time. 

So, it is about all working together. I'm sure everybody in this Senedd will want to do that, because we know that the last few weeks have been a very testing time across Wales. I wish to reassure people who've been affected by flooding that the Welsh Government will continue to do all we can to assist them with the restoration of their communities. 

Llyr Gruffydd to reply to the debate. 

Thank you very much, Llywydd. Yes, half an hour is a very short period of time for a debate like this. It's not the only one we’ll be having, and the other half an hour, of course, was used to point to one way of getting to grips with climate change. A core theme is shared by both debates, namely that the climate crisis is a reality. That's the message that comes through clearly to all of us, I'm sure, from these debates. That is, floods like this are going to become more common in the future; there are areas that haven't been threatened in the past that are going to be under threat in years to come. So, we need urgent answers. I think there has been a tendency for us to think that we can find our solutions for tomorrow. Well, tomorrow has come. We do have to find these solutions today. So, we do need solutions immediately, and those are listed in our motion, of course, namely an independent inquiry, that we need to revise the plans for adverse weather, we need to deal with insurance issues and all of the points that have been raised in this debate, in addition to the long-term solutions: hard and soft infrastructure, more resilience in the system, and dealing with issues in the planning system.

I have a housing estate close to where I live that has been built on a field called 'salmon field'. It's named so because the fields flooded every year, and the local residents used to go to fish for salmon in the pools when the water receded. There's now this housing estate on that field. And do you know what? It flooded a few years ago. That tells you everything that you need to know about that location. There are lessons to be learnt, and clearly we haven't learned them sufficiently.

In the opening remarks to this debate, when we were hearing about the need to futureproof, there were words that stuck in my mind: we need to 'readjust' and we need to 'recalibrate'. As a society, we need to readjust and we need to recalibrate. The economy needs to readjust and recalibrate. Our communities, and all of us as individuals, really have to readjust and recalibrate. And the Government has to be the catalyst that facilitates and spearheads that change. We have to learn from the misery that's been suffered by so many people over recent weeks, and we have to minimise the occurrence of any similar experiences in future.

The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Does any Member object? [Objection.] I will defer voting under this item until voting time.

Voting deferred until voting time.