Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 6:16 pm on 26 February 2020.
Diolch, Llywydd. May I thank all Members for their contributions? I regret slightly the tone of the later two contributions from the Labour benches, because I thought many of the contributions before were very thoughtful and we were having a good debate. And may I remind, in particular, the Minister, when he speaks about subverting democracy, that Wales voted to leave the European Union. Now Mick Antoniw may like to say that view, or our standing, and what we say, that that must have been respected, was somehow going against democracy or being to an extreme—[Interruption.] I haven't got time for an intervention. I am sorry.
But, actually, you said that you would respect that referendum, but you then spent three and a half years seeking to subvert it. Thankfully, you lost, but there are consequences of that three and a half years for how many people in Wales feel about this institution and your Government. Now Dai Lloyd speaks about the—and others spoke about the—difference between Welsh Government and this institution, but, of course, to start with, for several years, they were the same entity, and that language still continues. But we see, when we talk about what Plaid say, that there has been no alternation in power in this place. And the Conservatives say how great devolution could be if only there was a Conservative Government, but how will that ever happen when Plaid say that they will never work with you? If you will not work to present an alternative Government, there is no alteration of power, and the natural upset with politics and disappointment comes at the institution, added to that three and a half years of seeking to block Brexit.
And we keep on hearing about the 2011 referendum, but what it said was: full law-making power in 20 devolved areas. And the system that predated it was pretty preposterous and didn't make any sense to anyone. Yes, Wales voted for that, but you then changed it to a reserved-powers model, with all powers devolved except in areas reserved to Westminster, and, specifically, you had on the ballot paper a statement that said the Assembly cannot make laws on tax whatever the result of this vote. In 2014, I was an MP who voted again in Westminster to legislate for that. But, in 2017, having stood in 2015 and 2016 on a manifesto of respecting that, you reversed it, didn't have the referendum, and forced tax-raising powers on Wales. I think there's a price to pay for that.