4. Statement by the Minister for Health and Social Services: Coronavirus (COVID-2019) update

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:10 pm on 3 March 2020.

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Photo of Angela Burns Angela Burns Conservative 3:10, 3 March 2020

I'd like to start off by asking you: what can we do to get the public health message out loud and clear? In your statement today, you refer to various organisations, various departments, the public health website. Well, to be frank, I don't honestly think many members of the ordinary public will leap to consult the Public Health Wales website as a matter of first resort. So, I just wonder if we ought to look at tv or radio, just pushing that 'Catch it, bin it, kill it' and the washing of the hands messages.

Could you just tell us what you've done with the Minister for Education in terms of primary and secondary school children—because, of course, we all know that any bug of any sort can go like wildfire around schools—to actually get that message through to them? Because, we also know that pester power from young people is great; they, in turn, will go back and say to parents, friends and relatives the whole 'Catch it, bin it, kill it' message, and of course the message about lengthy, appropriate and proper washing of hands, not a quick couple of fingers under a tap.

Could you also, perhaps when you talk about the public health information campaign, reassure people about the virus itself and how long it can live? Because I've had people say to me, 'I've ordered something from a very large online retailer'—whose name I won't mention—'is it on the package because it's something from China?' Or, I've had businesses raising concerns about stuff that they're importing in. Where is the virus? Is it one of these that can live for an extended period of time? My understanding is it can't, but again it's about getting that message out so that people do not start panicking and thinking the end of the world is nigh, because I think that's incredibly important.

You mention in your statement that people can now access NHS 111. Can I just super clarify that with you? Because of course, 111 was only available in certain areas of Wales for a long time when it was being piloted and rolled out. Are you now saying that, throughout the whole of Wales, any concerns by anybody, it's 111 and they'll be directed to the right place, or do they still have to use the alternative that was there in the first place?

Could you also just let us know, throughout the NHS and social care, what information has been sent out to the myriad of different workers, from cleaners to consultants? Because again, I've had some people say they're well informed, and I've had other people saying that they haven't actually heard very much from their employer organisations. If you just have a view on that. So, all of that is about the public information.

I just want to turn my attention very briefly to legislation. I wonder if you can give us more detail on the timetable for legislation and confirm publicly, on the record, that powers that would be placed on the statute book would be for public health emergencies now and in the future, and that they have a very focused remit? Could you also assure the Parliament that, although one piece of legislation seems to be the favoured for all four nations, devolved matters will remain devolved, so that all the nations can use the legislation for the best interests of their respective countries? We may not have to use very much, because we may actually have very few cases, for example.

Are you able to give any legislative timescales? How will Assembly Members be able to scrutinise a Bill going through Westminster? I understand that the details are being worked up, and I'm very grateful for your intent to allow us—the opposition spokesmen and, I believe, the committee—to have a look at this whenever possible. Have COBRA also given thought to the public health information that would have to go through with any legislation, especially if it has things in it like the power to detain, the power to contain, the power to stop travel, to stop public gatherings, to do any of these other things? Because we live in a very liberal society, and our democracy may find just those very measures a bit of a shock, and difficult to take on board.

My apologies, Presiding Officer, this is such an important matter that I do want to plough on a little bit. Front-line staff—would you be able to outline what steps have been taken to protect front-line NHS and emergency services staff if this continues to develop? Also, although we're testing people, and thankfully they are being found negative, while we're testing them, we don't quite know that yet. We'd appreciate a little bit more detail when possible—I appreciate that you may not be able to do it today—on the primary care capacity. And will you be looking at measures such as, for example, one of the things that really strikes me is that we should, perhaps, insist that all GP surgeries do telephone triage, because, of course, we can still make appointments in a number of GP surgeries online, and when you're making an online appointment, you can't tell what that person's issue might be. So I just wondered if you might give thought to that.

Would you be able to expand on the First Minister's answer to the leader of the opposition on items such as emergency registration of health professionals, fitness to practice, indemnity costs, and so on and so forth? Are you giving any specific advice to people with underlying health conditions who have to regularly see their GPs, who have to regularly pick up prescriptions or to have blood tests? These are people with chronic conditions, such as diabetes, where they have to go in on a regular basis, but is there any way to circumvent that, to keep them out of harm's way for as long as possible? Could you confirm, within Welsh Government, if there's an official in each portfolio leading on this matter—for example, within the business portfolio? Because of course there are many concerns from all the different communities that are represented by your Cabinet colleagues sitting around the table with you.

Finally, I'd like to say actually, to be frank, well done. Nobody can plan for the worst all the time. We don't want to be on a perpetual war footing, either as a Government here, a Government in the UK or indeed the NHS anywhere, and it is hard to just leap forward with all of these measures in one go, so I know that there has been some adverse commentary by some sections of society saying that we should have this, that and the other, but again, I come back to what I said, Llywydd, at the very beginning—that the worst pandemic is fear. I think that the Governments have behaved as responsibly and as swiftly as they can. I do want to see legislation and scrutinise it properly to ensure that it's fit for purpose, and I'm particularly keen that, whatever happens, we try and protect our NHS front-line staff as much as possible, because at the end of the day, they are our first line of defence, and we need them to be as well as possible. Thank you, Minister.