Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 6:49 pm on 10 March 2020.
I honestly don't think I could disagree with you more, actually, Minister. Many years ago, I worked for a very wise business leader who said that he would never sack me for making a mistake, but he would sack me for failing to own it; and this is what we have here. Just let me remind you where we're at, because these are the last amendments to this Bill that are about the duty of quality and the duty of candour. Now, the whole premise of this entire Bill is about driving up the quality standards and about making our NHS more open and transparent. We have more amendments to come, but they're all about the citizen voice body and some technical stuff, basically. So, these are the two main strands: we want an honest and open culture, a culture where, when a staff nurse or midwife does a report that says that there are serious failings in maternity services, she or he would feel empowered to be able to flag that up because that's a duty of candour, and it's representing a duty of quality.
So, what is about to be passed—because I'm sure you'll end up, because you've been whipped, voting this amendment down—is a Bill that is going to actually say something along the lines of, 'Please be candid, but if you're not, if you deliberately decide not to be, then never mind.' And that's what we're trying to do here. We may not have done it in the best way. You used the word 'punitive', and you've used it a couple of times tonight. This isn't about punishment, but it is about saying, 'Please be honest. If you're honest: absolutely fine. If you own it: absolutely fine.' That's what the patient wants, the odd 'Sorry' every now and again. That's what we want to hear, 'We screwed up on this, we need to do it differently', not hiding it. We've got too many instances where it's deliberately being hidden or there's deliberate vagueness, and it's just not being changed. So, well done, great Bill, great bit of legislation, but it's going to do very little to actually drive that culture change.
We've all talked about it, time and time again, about being the best, about Wales having the leading NHS, the best social care, the best of everything, being the first with new and groundbreaking legislation. With this, all we're saying is, give it some teeth, so that if you are a senior manager and you see something and you choose to stick it in your bottom drawer and say nothing about it you will know that, eventually, when you are found out there will be consequences. Please vote for these amendments.