I'm sorry to have to disappoint Angela Burns again, but as Members will know, there were identical amendments on joint complaints tabled at Stage 2, as Angela Burns has indicated. I still don't believe the Bill would be a suitable vehicle to bring these changes forward. Responses to the White Paper consultation and subsequent  consideration have indicated further engagement in the area is needed with a range of stakeholders to help develop the policy in the area.

In terms of what the proposed amendment does, my concern is that it is potentially too restrictive. For instance, it requires NHS bodies and local authorities to conduct a joint investigation into concerns raised under the NHS complaints procedure and under the social services complaints procedure regulations. That does not cover the large number of social services complaints made by children under the Representations Procedures (Wales) Regulations 2014, nor does it take account of complaints that are made directly to providers of regulated social care services, such as care homes and domiciliary care providers. This route is particularly relevant for those whose care and support is not managed or arranged by a local authority.

The committee itself recognised that considering the best approach for joint complaints,

'is not a straightforward piece of work',  and urged the Government to continue to work with stakeholders to find ways to simplify the process. I have, as Angela Burns has mentioned, committed to convening a round-table discussion with that wide range of stakeholders to consider how the process could apply to NHS complaints, local authority complaints as well as complaints brought against providers of regulated social care.

There are a number of key stakeholders that need to be involved in delivering on this ambition and work to be undertaken to ensure we deliver effective joint complaints arrangements. Officials are already working to arrange that round-table discussion before summer recess. But I do think that the six-month time frame that Angela Burns refers to in the amendment would be an overly optimistic time frame to be able to complete all of this in good time, even if we were in normal times, and, of course, we're not, in terms of the particular challenges that we know that we're going to face.

But we're taking this approach in this area of joint complaints to bring together a number of different strands that we know have to be in the same place at the same time. As I outlined during Stage 2, the fact that the body will have the ability to assist someone bringing a complaint about health and social care, demonstrates our commitment to making things easier for people who have complaints that span these two areas.

To reiterate, our approach remains to continue to work with NHS Wales organisations, local government and other bodies to discuss ways of making the process simpler for people who have those complaints across health and social care. I hope that Members do recognise the genuine and clear determination of the Government to achieve that goal as part of a more integrated health and social care system that is genuinely people-centred, and developed in partnership with key stakeholders. We will be reviewing and updating our putting things right regulations and associated guidance to ensure that they properly effect the changes we're making through this Bill to introduce a duty of candour.

I have listened to the points that Angela Burns has raised and whilst I think we agree on the ultimate destination for it, I'm afraid that I can't support the amendment that she moves today.