Thank you, Llywydd. Following the Stage 2 debate, I met with opposition health spokespeople to discuss a number of issues, one of which, of course, was the question of access to premises, and we did have a constructive discussion. Officials have spoken to stakeholders who represent providers of health and social care, nurse directors of health boards and trusts, the Welsh Local Government Association and a representative from Care Forum Wales, and all were supportive of the code of practice approach.

I’m sure that we all recognise that people’s feedback gathered in real time by an independent and trusted body will provide an important insight and a valuable resource for service improvement. I have also written to the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee to provide assurance on a number of matters, including the code. As you will have noted, we have re-tabled, with a slight technical amendment, our Stage 2 amendment. It places a duty on Welsh Ministers to prepare and publish a code of practice about access to premises where health services and social services are provided. This amendment responds to recommendation 12 of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee’s Stage 1 report, which called for a qualified right of access.

We considered, at length, many options on access before deciding the code of practice provided the right approach in relation to the functions of the citizen voice body. I will comment shortly on the Welsh Conservatives' amendment, but before doing so I want to put on record that I genuinely believe that everyone is trying to achieve the right result, even if we ultimately don't agree.  

I recognise that this is a key part of the Bill and it's essential that we get it right. Our intention is to create a framework that facilitates access to the citizen voice body for people receiving care. Other amendments we tabled at Stage 3, such as the duty of co-operation that requires NHS bodies and local authorities to make arrangements with the citizen voice body to co-operate, to support them in seeking the views of the public, also facilitates co-operation in relation to access to premises. The key objective is to ensure that the body can exercise its functions in a way that recognises the individual needs and circumstances of people receiving care and support in very different settings. A code of practice allows us to reflect how access might best be achieved for people in a range of scenarios and settings, from hospitals to supported living.

The amendment requires the Welsh Ministers to consult on the code, and it is important that we are guided by people who have experience of receiving care in these different settings. Given the requirement to consult, I don't wish to pre-empt its content, but I want to repeat the assertion that I made during Stage 2 that the starting presumption should be that access will be agreed. However, the code may, for example, recommend the factors the body ought to take into account when seeking access to premises; for example, to maximise the opportunity to talk to residents, family and visitors. It may also make recommendations about the need for those conducting visits to have appropriate training and checks.

The code will be supported by existing provision that gives considerable weight to it. For example, on the social services side, part 2 code of practice, issued under the Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Act 2014, states that local authorities must:

'Ensure that providers from whom they commission or procure services encourage and enable the involvement of all people in designing the shape of services and how they will operate to deliver personal outcomes, and that providers involve people in evaluation and review.'

There is therefore a duty on local authorities to ensure that commissioned services enable service users to be involved in shaping services. Now, whilst important, accessing premises is only one way in which the body can seek views. The body will also need to engage not only with current service users but also past users, prospective users and their families. So, accessing premises to seek views is one part of the wider picture.

The code will carry the necessary weight to ensure all parties—NHS bodies, local authorities and the citizen voice body—discharge their respective responsibilities. We have not in our assessment and engagement with stakeholders seen or heard evidence that they would not discharge their respective responsibilities appropriately.

Now, research by both Kent University and LSE, published in July 2018, demonstrated that 99.7 per cent of over 1,000 adult care homes in England reported that visiting could take place at any time. No evidence has been presented to me, or to us, to show that the position would be any different here in Wales. I ask Members to support the amendment, which provides a clear and comprehensive approach to ensure clarity for and certainty across health and social care.

I know that the Member will speak to her amendment, but I would like to set out my views. I have considered the amendment put forward. I appreciate the reference to the code of practice and take from that that the Member appreciates the benefits that a code may bring to this part of the Bill. Unfortunately, even though I don't have any doubt about the intent behind the amendment, I can't support it. The effect of the amendment is, unfortunately, unclear. I believe the intention is to give the citizen voice body a power to access, enter and view premises for the purposes of any of its functions. It appears that the intention is for this right of entry to be qualified by a code of practice prepared by Welsh Ministers, although that is not absolutely clear.

There are real problems with what the code provisions require Welsh Ministers to do. It is impossible, for example, to set out an exhaustive list of the circumstances in which the body may enter and view premises. This does not operate to the advantage of the body or, indeed, to users of health and social services. There will always be unforeseen circumstances which may arise, and the amendment could, therefore, potentially be restrictive.

The amendment also requires the code to set out an exhaustive list of the circumstances in which the citizen voice body may enter domestic premises or private rooms in care homes at the request of an individual. Again, that can't be right. It is not for the Welsh Ministers in a code of practice to set out an exhaustive list of the circumstances in which an individual may invite the citizen voice body into their home. Surely that is a matter for the individual themselves to determine.

I therefore ask Members to support the Government amendment and to reject the amendment in the name of Angela Burns.