Diolch. Amendment 44, the duty to provide information, advice and training to volunteers, is my only amendment in this group. It's because, during our evidence session with community health councils, it was quite clear that community health councils currently undertake training with their members, as do their equivalents in England, namely Healthwatch, and we want this to continue. You might think, 'Oh, well, why do you need an amendment for that? Why do you need to put it into the Bill?' As I outlined at Stage 2, taken with amendment 45, on the right of entry to premises, a duty to provide information, advice and training to volunteers and staff is critical. I want to quote the chair of the North Wales Community Health Council, Geoff Ryall-Harvey, who said that

'local Healthwatch organisations get lots of support and training from Healthwatch England, and the volunteer members of Healthwatch would need to go on a training course' before they started visiting hospitals. 

So, for us, we want to make sure that this is on the face of the Bill to ensure that there's not just a continuation, but a reinforcing and an underpinning of the importance of advising and training our volunteers and staff. There's been much play during the course of this Bill that we want to have more volunteers involved and that we want to really enable them to go out there and act throughout the health services and, of course, now the social care services, and really promote and ensure that what they're doing is absolutely right. 

But this is more than just simply training volunteers. It's actually about the independence of the new citizen voice body. It's about the openness of having different types of volunteers—volunteers who are not necessarily already connected with public bodies in Wales. If we want to attract and open access and encourage lots of different types of people from very different walks of life to come and act in their community, to come and act on behalf of their local citizen voice body, then we absolutely need to make the citizen voice body as outward facing as possible, and that involves training. The current CHCs have outlined many times some of the existing challenges that CHCs have found relating to recruitment requirements, and they believe very firmly that this new body, in whatever form it finally takes, must develop its arrangements in a way that encourages that access and enables people from all backgrounds. 

At Stage 2, Minister, I appreciate that you attempted to reassure me that there were resources put aside for training within the Bill's RIA, which is why I withdrew it. But, despite having £92,500 set aside annually for training, I haven't received an absolute commitment from you to commit to include training within the statutory guidance and, again, I do want to hear that real training will be undertaken and that support for volunteers and staff will be a key part of moving the new citizen voice body forward. I'd just like to remind you that you did admit that in your RIA it was difficult to estimate how many volunteer members the body will require as it will be dependent on numerous factors, such as location, the skill set of volunteers and the time commitment offered. And, although you're working on the basis of the current 276 CHC volunteers, this potentially huge number of volunteers, the RIA provides for just one working time-equivalent secondee to develop all of the induction training resources for staff and volunteers during transition. I pity that poor person; I don't see how they can do it. 

So, I will end my contribution on this amendment with something so ably put by the board of the community health councils. They said that this is much more than having knowledge of the NHS and social sectors—this must be about developing and ensuring

'competence and understanding of the principles and practices of effective engagement and representation'.

We would agree entirely with this assertion, Minister, and therefore we urge Members to support this amendment.