Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 5:36 pm on 11 March 2020.
No, we absolutely did and my point, David, was that it's up to us to decide that and if your colleagues want to seek further time, they've got other opportunities to do that, but it's up to us how we use that time. So I'm not taking any lessons on it. But that's not the main substantive point.
I need to make a correction to my colleague Leanne Wood, because she said that I wrote the legislation to which she referred. That's not true. I supported the then Minister, Edwina Hart, in writing that legislation, but I do know what it contains. The Government either knows or it should know that the legislation that they referred to, the National Health Service (Wales) Act 2006, has been, and was during the time of the One Wales Government, amended. I want to remind Members of the tone of that debate at the time when we made those decisions. There was a legitimate debate about whether the health service should be managed by arm's-length bodies, like the old trusts, or whether it should be directly accountable to the democratic process. It was a legitimate debate, and I will quote what the Minister said at the time. During the course of that debate, Edwina Hart said that she fully understood the case for arm's length, which is what the Government amendment is suggesting, but this is what she said: the decisions about health need to be made by the people that people can sack, and those are the politicians.
I am not disputing the point that, now this process has begun, the point at which the Minister might be able to intervene is after a decision is made one way or the other, but the context of this is that the Welsh Government appoints all the non-executive directors of the health boards. The Welsh Government sets its budget, the Welsh Government sets the policy context within which it operates, and it is simply disingenuous to say that this is a matter for the health board in isolation. It is not. The Government needs to take responsibility. Leanne Wood said that there is a tendency to centralise these emergency services. If that needs to be done, then let it be done, but let it be done openly and honestly and let the people who are responsible take the responsibility for those decisions.
People have made comments here and outside about playing politics with the NHS. Well, Dirprwy Lywydd, the NHS exists because of politics. The NHS is a political decision and, at the time of the One Wales Government, we made a very clear commitment to the people of Wales that the Government, whatever Government it was, would stop hiding behind the semi-independent trusts, that we took out the market mechanism and we created the larger health boards, and those health boards are directly answerable to the Government. Now, you can dress it up whichever way you like, you can quote outdated legislation if that's what you want to do—