Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:06 pm on 17 March 2020.
I'm very grateful to the Minister for his statement today and for his answers to Russell George. We are, as he said, facing an absolutely unprecedented situation, and I was very pleased to hear him and the First Minister concur with the views on these benches and, I think, across the Chamber that this situation needs a massive response across the whole of the UK. We quite literally, most of us, have never faced anything like this. People talk about the second world war, but none of us can really remember what that was like, and I really think we will need some of that scale of ambition and response. The Minister is quite right to say that that has to be led by the UK Government.
I want to focus my questions, Llywydd, on those matters that are within the Welsh Government's responsibility, but potentially some of those questions will refer to discussions that he and his colleagues are having with UK Ministers. I first of all want to say that, obviously, we welcome the announcement on business rate relief, but as others have already said, there are many businesses that that will not help because they're not currently paying business rates. Can he tell us a little bit more about the proposals for the grant scheme? He may not be able to give us detail, but I think the business community would be very grateful to hear by when he will be able to give us detail, because this is a matter where businesses are going out of business as we speak, particularly those working on very narrow margins. So it's absolutely crucial that, if he can't tell us anymore in much more detail today—and I appreciate what he said about consulting with the business sector, because of course that's appropriate—if we could have an idea of what the timeline might be.
I'd like to suggest to the Minister that there may be more that can be done to make businesses aware of the fact that the usual helpline is the place to go. I think he'd probably agree with me that we're not always as successful as we'd like to be in communicating with particularly really small businesses. There may be things, of course, that we can all do as Members in our own constituencies and regions to help particularly businesses that contact us to be aware of the helpline. But I think there is more work to be done there for people to understand that that's not just a business as usual line, it's also a line that can be used in situations of crisis.
The Minister mentioned in his response to Russell George some of the absolute crisis that some hospitality businesses and theatres, cinemas and so on may find themselves in, because we are, of course, in a situation where people are being advised not to use those businesses, but, on the other hand, there is no compulsory closure of those businesses. So those businesses that might be able to access insurance if they were formally shut down are unable to do so at the moment. My understanding is that that might be a matter for the UK Government, but I wonder if I could ask the Minister, with his colleagues and with the Counsel General particularly, to look at the Welsh Government's powers under the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1994, which does give the Welsh Government powers to ban events and gatherings, and to see whether it's possible, as we wait—and of course, we may get more announcements later today—for the UK Government to act, if it is possible to put such an order onto businesses so that they may be able to claim, those of them that do have business interruption insurance, for example. I ask the Minister as well what assessment he has made or can make of how many of those affected businesses do have such insurance. Of course, many of the smaller ones will not, or they won't be covered for this particular situation. I would put it to the Minister that some of those businesses are going to need grant support in the short term to get them through. Again, I was very pleased to hear the First Minister say that no business that was a viable business 10 days ago should not be there at the end of this crisis and I think there's a need for more joined-up thinking to make sure that that happens.
On another matter, it's been put to me that some businesses who do find themselves forced to close could potentially use this time to redevelop, particularly their premises. I'll ask the Minister whether he can look at whether some of the Government's current grant giving schemes—I'm thinking particularly that this has been raised with me by tourism businesses, but there may be others—whether that process could be accelerated, so that if you have got a bed-and-breakfast that has to be closed because there's nobody there and they know, medium term, they need to do developments, whether we can get some access and resources in there, so that while they are closed without the option, they can take advantage of that.
To turn briefly to public transport, the Minister refers to advice given to users of public transport. I wonder if he can think again, with the Minister for health, about whether there is more we need to say to users of public transport to help keep themselves safe. For many people, as the Minister knows, there is no option. He said himself: some of us are lucky and may be able to work from home, but there are people who can't do that, and whether also he can keep us updated about any issues with regard to measures that may be able to be made to reduce overcrowding.
Additionally with regard to public transport, he will be aware that there are many smaller bus companies in particular that will have lost a lot of business. They'll have lost their tourism based business: that's already. It's been raised with me that it may be an issue for those companies if we do go down the route of closing schools, because that is their only sustainable long-term—. Providing school transport is their sustainable long-term way of keeping their businesses viable. I wonder if he could have further discussions with appropriate Ministers to see whether we can support local government to carry on paying for those contracts, even if they're not being used. It would be very understandable, I'm sure he'd agree, for people making decisions at a local level to say, 'Well, if the children are not going to school, we're not going to pay for the buses.' But the reality is, certainly in Carmarthenshire, and I know across mid and west Wales, that if those services are not paid for, those bus companies won't still be here by the time we come out of the crisis, so we do have to think about how we can keep those sustainable.
He mentions in his statement statutory sick pay, and of course that will be helpful to those people who are out of work because they are unwell, or because they're self-isolating, but I'm sure that he'll agree with me that there are an awful lot of people who may find themselves either temporarily out of work or actually redundant because of this. And I wonder if he can have further discussions with the UK Government about how they could, for example, improve the speed at which people go through applications for universal credit, and we would argue on these benches, maybe time in the short term to be more ambitious and to look at a basic income for everybody. But within the Welsh Government's own powers, of course, we do have the emergency assistance payments, and I wonder if he can have appropriate discussions with the appropriate Ministers about that scheme, and look at whether we can put more money into that, so that families who are in crisis because they are self-isolating, for example, and may have no income, could look to receive some support from that fund, so that would need, of course, a change in the eligibility criteria.
Finally, I'm very glad to hear the Minister say that he's having discussions with the commercial banks. I think many of us would believe that they owe us: they got their bailout when the crisis was their fault. I have been told, for example, today by a constituent, that HSBC is already refusing to increase overdraft facilities for some rural businesses, because their borrowing may already be quite high because they're at the end of the winter season and they're just at the time when they may be able to make money. I'd like to ask him to raise that matter specifically because those small rural businesses, again, their margins are very slight, they know they'll have a hard time in the winter, their banks should know they'll have a hard time in the winter, and that shouldn't stop them being supported to continue to lend, and it's completely unacceptable if that is what these big banks doing, and I know HSBC is doing it in one case.
And I'd like to end my contribution, Llywydd, by again thanking the Minister for his statement, and asking him—as I'm sure he will—to keep us all updated. He will, of course, expect rigorous scrutiny from these benches, but we will also offer him our support in dealing with what, as we all agree, is a completely unprecedented situation.