1. Will the Minister make a statement in response to the UK Government’s announcement on support for business and the economy made on 17 March 2020? 408

Yes, of course. I welcomed the Chancellor's announcement, but clearly more needs to be done in the coming days, particularly to support businesses with wage costs and financial support for employees who've been laid off. Now, the Welsh Government will be making an announcement later this afternoon regarding matching in full the grants to small businesses in England as well as providing business rate relief for retail, leisure and hospitality businesses. However, Dirprwy Lywydd, there is a significant shortfall of hundreds of millions of pounds between the Barnett consequential we have received and the cost of matching all aspects of the Chancellor's package for English businesses, and we expect the UK Government to fill this gap.

I'm grateful to the Minister for that answer, and I think all of us welcomed the fact that the United Kingdom Government has woken up to the crisis facing many people across the country. Members will be aware that it's over a decade now since we bailed out the banks—now it's time to support our people. Many of us feel that the Chancellor, in his statement yesterday, failed in three ways. First of all, the Chancellor's statement did not look at the impact that this is having on people and families. I've been contacted by many people who are self-employed and running small businesses, all of whom are frightened because of the virus circulating in our community, but also frightened because they may well be losing their jobs and losing their businesses. It is incumbent upon any Government to respond fully to the crisis facing people in our communities today, and the Government in the United Kingdom has not recognised this impact on small businesses and the self-employed. 

It has also, Deputy Presiding Officer, failed to recognise the importance of small businesses to the economy of Wales. It has failed to recognise the importance of these businesses to our wider economy and to our communities. The Minister has already stated in his answer that Barnett will not work. It has to be time now for Barnett to be put away and for a new needs-based formula to provide the full support that Wales needs and deserves. 

Finally, Minister, can I ask you about the way in which the United Kingdom Government is working at the moment? This is a crisis across the United Kingdom and across the world, but the United Kingdom seems interested only in one nation in the United Kingdom and not in the four nations of the United Kingdom. The Welsh Ministers, I am aware, have offered the United Kingdom Government private meetings and opportunities to work together to deliver the support that all businesses across the UK need. Isn't it time that the UK governed for the whole of the United Kingdom and ensured that the whole of the United Kingdom gets the support that businesses, the self-employed and our communities require, need and deserve?

Can I thank Alun Davies for his questions? This institution was set up to address Welsh problems, but, of course, we live in exceptional times. Coronavirus is a global problem and requires both a global response but also a very strong UK response. It requires a response in which all four nations are contributing to the solutions, and I was pleased this morning to take part in what I hope will be a weekly round of quadrilateral discussions with my counterparts across the UK, including with Ministers at the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy.

I have to say a number of things about the announcement that was made yesterday. Far more does need to be done. We were informed this morning that further statements will be made. I know that the Prime Minister has made a statement this afternoon concerning people who rent properties who, up until today, were extraordinarily anxious about the position that they would find themselves in. I hope that further support will be forthcoming for people who face much reduced wages or, indeed, the loss of wages entirely. In this regard, I spoke with the Secretary of State yesterday in BEIS and, as part of the quadrilateral discussions today, we raised the prospect of a wage subsidy scheme being rolled out by the UK Government. This would not be without precedent. We've seen this adopted in many other countries around the world, and I was told that that very proposal would be considered. I hope that an announcement will be made by the UK Government in the coming days.

It will have to be matched, of course, with a huge fiscal package of support. The Office for Budget Responsibility, in the last 24 hours, have said that a blunderbuss approach must be taken by the Government, and that means that rather than spend about 1.5 per cent of GDP in bolstering the economy, more like 5 per cent should be invested in it, and that's precisely what I hope the UK Government will reflect on as it does devise—as I am hoping it will do—a strong interventionist policy in terms of wage support. In terms of the £330 billion that was announced, that was largely focused on businesses that could afford to borrow, but we know that there are many businesses that are simply not in that position right now and need help immediately. 

Now, I've asked for clarity as to what the gap in the proposals for England may be. Twenty billion pounds has been allocated to that set of proposals, but we are not entirely sure whether the proposals can be afforded in full with the £20 billion that has been allocated to it. My understanding is that grants in England will not be available until April. They will be administered by local authorities. We are looking here in Wales at how we can get money out of the door sooner, because there is an urgent need to support small and medium-sized enterprises and indeed larger businesses as well right now.

Can I thank you for your balanced answer, I think, to Alun Davies? And Alun Davies's question—I'm really disappointed by the tone of his approach because, as I said yesterday, Minister, I want to work with you and the Government, with scrutiny but also in a balanced way and with co-operation, at this unprecedented time. We had the Chancellor yesterday, on top of last week's budget, announcing £330 billion, an unprecedented amount, with a Barnett consequential of £1.1 billion, with more money—more money—coming as needed as well. So, let's keep that in the context that it's meant to be. [Interruption.] Please—

Just carry on.

But I'm just so frustrated that we're not working on a consensual basis, Deputy Presiding Officer. Come on, let's pull together at this particular time. I'm going to try now and go through my questions in a measured way. 

Yesterday, Minister, the Government obviously announced additional measures for business support. You said you will, I think, make an announcement later today, which I very, very much welcome because I do think that needs to be as quick as possible. I appreciate officials have got to work through those consequentials and details, but certainly the UK Government for England announced, regardless of the rateable value, that all businesses—whether they're pubs, whether they're music venues or theatres or restaurants—will have rate relief from 1 April completely. And I would hope, of course, that the Welsh Government can do the same here in Wales as soon as possible, and I think that it is important that that happens quickly because if that doesn't happen, then our inboxes fill up, and extra pressure is put on Business Wales with businesses asking the questions. So, it's really important that that happens as soon as possible. Of course, there's also the grant that's available that the UK Government announced—not a loan but a grant available to businesses, up from £3,000 to £10,000, and there will obviously be an area there for the Welsh Government to come forward with its own scheme. Again, I very much welcome the fact that you're able to do that, and if you're able to do that sooner than the UK Government is doing that in England for Welsh businesses, then that's great and you'll have my full support in that as well.

In regard to Business Wales, you mentioned yesterday that that is the one-stop shop, and I very much welcome that, and you mentioned that it has got capacity, or has indicated that. I have to say that I've been pointing businesses to that line and they've been getting back to me to say that they've been for two days trying to get through. I've tried myself to contact Business Wales—I was in a queue for 30 minutes and at that point I gave up. That's not a criticism, that's to let you know what's going on in these unprecedented times, and also, the options available weren't relevant, I don't think, for the current crisis that we're in. There was no mention of the current position. Option 1 is, you know, 'Do you want to start a new business? Press 1.' I pressed the fifth option, which is 'other', so I do think that that needs to be looked at to make sure that businesses get through to speak to someone as soon as possible, as much as that can possibly be. 

There's also the issue, when it does come to business rates, of whether local authorities have sent out demands or not yet. But, of course, if that can be stopped or if businesses can universally be told, 'You will not be paying business rates', that will again take off pressure. There's an admin issue here for local authorities, where a lot of resource and time could be saved if we can work through some of these issues as quickly as possible before the beginning of the new financial year. 

And finally, the British Business Bank also provides funds, and I would just like some clarity, if possible—if not now then through a statement, perhaps, for Members—that the British development bank, for example, is providing funding to the whole of the UK for business support, and how does that correlate with the Development Bank of Wales? Can Welsh businesses go through both banks? And with that consequential, how does that work in terms of some areas of business support not coming through the Welsh Government, but coming through other means as well? It would be useful to understand that so that we can correctly give the right information to businesses as well. I remain committed to working with you on a non-partisan basis to help businesses across Wales, Minister. 

Can I thank Russell George for his questions? There were a number of areas and subjects that he's raised this afternoon.

First of all, can I say with regard to Business Wales—Business Wales are obviously being inundated with calls right now? I was informed just this morning that additional staff have been moved away from their regular jobs, their regular functions, in order to answer the huge number of calls that are being made to that particular service. I also raised the issue of the voice messaging and the referral of people through the voicemail system. That is being addressed as we speak. I would suggest to businesses as a first port of call to visit the website and the information that's provided on it. There is also the possibility to log a call back if businesses are not able to wait more than five, 10, or, indeed, 30 minutes, and I do recognise—I do recognise—that there is enormous pressure there with Business Wales. We're looking at every opportunity to further bolster the number of people that are advising businesses within Business Wales.

In terms of notices for business rates, if they can be stopped, obviously they will be, but if they can't be and they've already been issued, then further notices will be going out to inform businesses that they will have zero to pay. In terms of the £330 billion that was announced, it is purely in loans at the moment and we require an additional sum of money—a very, very significant sum indeed—to be made available to cover the fixed costs of businesses as they try to struggle through this period or if they decide to hibernate as they cease operation for a temporary period of time. That money should be used to ensure that there is an income for people who are affected by coronavirus and who are in work but also to retain those valuable workers on the books of those businesses that are affected. It's absolutely vital that action is taken in that regard.

I know that the Finance Minister is speaking this afternoon with the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, and Rebecca Evans will be making a very powerful case for that gap that I mentioned to be filled. It's absolutely essential if we are to roll out precisely the same level of support in terms of NDR for the sectors that were announced yesterday by the Chancellor. There are enormous costs, obviously, associated with supporting chain supermarkets, chain superstores and chain hotels, but, in the very least, we look to the opportunity of making discretionary support available to councils, recognising that in many parts of Wales independent large businesses, such as those hotels in many of our communities, can provide invaluable support to the supply chain.

I thank the Minister for his response to Alun Davies's question. I think it is undoubtedly true that because of the structure of our economy we will need a higher level of support for business, potentially, and I'm encouraged by what the Minister says that he's getting some positive response from the UK Government to acknowledge that. I'm sure that we can have every faith in the finance Minister that she'll be making that case really, really powerfully, because we do have a very different structure. We're more dependent on tourism, for example, in some communities. We have still—thank goodness—more manufacturing capacity than many other parts of the UK, but, again, those businesses may be under threat. And we also have—and this is my first question to the Minister—an awful lot of micro businesses, as my colleague, Leanne Wood, was mentioning yesterday, an awful lot of people who are one-person organisations or one-or-two-people organisations. I think it's very important, as we move forward, that any package of business support can be really easily and effectively passed on to them. The fact that there'll be earlier access to sick pay is not going to solve the problem for people who are self-isolating not because they're ill but because somebody else is, and it certainly isn't going to solve the problem for somebody who's not self-isolating but is just not having any business, if, for example, they're a builder and they would normally go into people's homes and they're just not getting any business coming through.

So, I'd like to hear a bit more from the Minister today about what his proposals are to ensure that that support can get to those micro businesses. I was going to raise the points about the access to the helpline that Russell George has already raised, but there's no need to repeat that. But I think it's particularly—. For those businesses it's particularly important that access to support is easy and that information is easy to get hold of, because they don't have big admin departments to back them up in those particular regards. 

I was encouraged to hear what the Minister said about rate relief for some of our bigger tourism businesses. I'm thinking of organisations like the Harbourmaster Hotel in my region and the Llywydd's constituency, which is an independent Welsh-owned business, but, as the Minister's said, absolutely crucial in the supply chain in that area. It's a destination business that people come to that town to visit, to stay in, to use the excellent restaurant, and we know we've got hundreds of those all over Wales. So, if I can ask the Minister to keep that business rate relief under advisement and to look again at whether we can make a difference, potentially, between those locally owned businesses who we would want to be subsidising, if you like, and the big chains that we may or may not want to support. Because I certainly don't think that there would be any intention on the Minister's part for those businesses not to be supported.

And finally, Dirprwy Lywydd—I take it that this goes without saying—I hope that, in this very fast moving picture, the Minister will be able to keep us all informed about what's going on about the response from the Westminster Government. I hope that colleagues on the benches opposite will also support any representations that are being made to Ministers at the other end of the M4, because I'm sure that they do understand the different structure of our business. But the more that we are all informed about what's going on, the more we can share that information with concerned constituents, and the more that we can, as far as we can, operate as Team Wales. The Minister knows that he'll always get rigorous scrutiny from these benches and from the rest of the opposition, but, in these circumstances, where we can, we will want to work together.

Well, can I thank Helen Mary Jones? Just as she was incredibly constructive and helpful yesterday, so too she is today. At risk of adding to the burden of my officials, I think it would be helpful, in light of what Helen Mary Jones has suggested, if I provide a weekly written statement concerning our engagement with the UK Government and other devolved nations, and the very latest in terms of interventions concerning the economy, and I'll endeavour to do just that.

In terms of the points raised concerning sole traders and microbusinesses, as I've said, later today we expect to be able to announce that we'll be matching the UK Government's offer of grants of £10,000 to all small businesses. That will include sole traders. Where sole traders and microbusinesses don't have premises, then they will need to rely on a wage subsidy scheme. That's why I think it's so important that as soon as possible the UK Government can develop a fair wage subsidy scheme for businesses of all sizes in order to ensure that businesses can either hibernate or fight through this particular crisis.

And then, thirdly, Helen Mary Jones raised the important point of just how significant independent hoteliers can be to many of our communities—independent large shops, as well, in many parts of Wales. I would say that discretionary rate relief could be available to support many, but if we really wish to match what the UK Government has offered to England, and if we wish to ensure that as many businesses as possible benefit from this, we need the UK Government to fill that huge gap of hundreds of millions of pounds.

Thank you. Joyce Watson.

Minister, I'm really pleased that this question has been put forward—and I thank Alun Davies for doing that—to give us an opportunity, and you an opportunity, to represent our areas. The Mid and West Wales economy does rely heavily on tourism and small businesses, but that, in turn, has a high percentage of part-time and zero-hours workforce to support it. I do welcome the announcement of the UK Government support in as far as it's gone, but I am concerned, and you've reiterated it here several times, that it is aimed at the bigger businesses and not necessarily going to support the multitude of small and medium enterprises that we have in Mid and West Wales.

But what I want to really focus on today is the workforce, and particularly statutory sick pay. Can you please tell me what discussions you've had with your counterpart in the UK to ensure that the part-time and zero-hours workers who don't currently qualify for SSP receive it? And will you urge the UK Government's Department for Work and Pensions to pay that quickly to those who are on sick or who are into forced self-isolation at a rate that matches the real living wage? That, in turn, will help the families and the individuals survive this crisis, because it is, indeed, a crisis that they find themselves in, and not of their own making.

And I hope that you will urge the UK Government to remove the five-week wait for universal credit. I'm really assured to hear from the Tory benches here that they want to work with us and support us, and I hope that they will start writing to the Ministers in their Government, asking them for that statutory sick pay, and I look forward to copies of those letters.

Easter, we know, is coming. We know that, unfortunately, it isn't going to necessarily be the happy celebrations that we were all hoping for, but, nonetheless, I'm sure that everybody here will join me in hoping that everybody does have as peaceful and as good an Easter as they possibly can have.

Can I thank Joyce Watson for her questions, and for championing the need to support people and businesses in Mid and West Wales, and, indeed, across the country? The question of statutory sick pay was raised today in a quadrilateral. It's been raised by the First Minister as well in his letter to the Chancellor dated 17 March, which I know has been circulated to Members. We hope that the Government will take action in the way that the Member has outlined.

I think it's important, Dirprwy Lywydd, that I just reflect on some other difficulties that individuals and small businesses are facing at the moment, particularly in the region that the Member represents. Those include those fixed costs that can amount to huge sums, including utility costs. I'm calling on utility companies to roll out a significant offer to individuals and businesses in terms of payment holidays, reflecting what banks have responsibly done in terms of offering mortgage repayment holidays. I think it's absolutely essential that everybody contributes to the effort to see people and businesses through this incredibly difficult period. And that includes utility companies doing what they can do as well.

Just one final point, Dirprwy Lywydd, and it's in regard to a question asked by Russell George. I was due to meet with the British development bank earlier this week. Unfortunately, due to the crisis, they were unable to meet. A discussion with them is being put into my diary, and I will report back to Members as soon as I can.

I fail to see, Minister, how the Welsh Government could have described the financial package that has been put in place to date as 'wholly inadequate'. Across this Chamber yesterday, Members stood shoulder to shoulder in the face of this virus that is going on. Four hundred and thirty billion pounds has been injected into the economy and will be injected into the economy—15 per cent of gross domestic product, that is. Not 1.5 per cent, not 5 per cent, but 15 per cent of GDP, that is.

And only—[Interruption.] Only yesterday, I pointed two things out to you, Minister: (1), in your statement, you didn't highlight the £100 billion of extra borrowing that the Chancellor had injected at the budget last week, and the Government was standing by 80 per cent of the loans that were underwritten by that £100 billion. Secondly, I asked you specifically around the resources of Business Wales—whether they'd be able to deal with queries. That wasn't a criticism; that was trying to seek reassurance, given the tidal wave of queries—and rightly so—that will be coming forward from business.

Only today, we have heard from my own spokesman here saying that messaging on the system is still failing to address these concerns, and people are frustrated, to say the least, and angry at worst. Can you give us reassurance that the resources are being made available? You have alluded to that fact, but can you give us an idea of how much more resource has been released to Business Wales in the number of operators that will be available and the type of information they will be able to give to businesses who are questioning, and legitimately questioning, where they need to go to seek this help? I appreciate it is a crisis we are in, but, if you are pointing people in a direction, we need to point them in the right direction to seek the support they can get.

I would implore you, when you do put the press releases out, you put press releases out that are accurate. The press release that went out about the UK Government's financial aid last night was completely inaccurate from the Welsh Government.

The reason that I believe it was described as 'wholly inadequate' is because there is a gap of hundreds of millions of pounds. It's an inescapable fact. And I don't mean this as a criticism; it may well be down to the UK Government not engaging with us in terms of the planning of the intervention. That, I hope, will be addressed as we work through this crisis, because I want to work alongside the UK Government as well, as I think I have done over many years.

But the reason that it is inadequate is because the shape of the Welsh economy is different to that of England, and it hasn't been recognised within the Barnett formula, as Alun Davies has already highlighted. That needs to be addressed urgently, because what we can't have—. Look, drop the politics aside—what we can't have is an announcement being made in England regarding schemes that can be afforded within a certain declared envelope, and then us being asked to do exactly the same here in the absence of the money to actually do it. That is the challenge that we face if the difference in the Welsh and English economies is not recognised. And indeed, it's not just us, Scotland faces problems too, Northern Ireland as well. This was the point of the discussion today, and I have to say that that discussion was very collegiate. I think that the challenge was recognised by colleagues in the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy.

Now, what we need to do is ensure that that challenge is addressed, and that the adequate resource that we're calling for comes to Wales so that we can support Welsh businesses equally. Because what I've been saying to businesses, and what businesses have been saying to me, is if we can at all avoid divergence, then let's avoid divergence. Whether you're based in London or Llandaff, you wish to know in the clearest terms what support is available, and it should be consistent in my view. That's why I'm determined to make sure, as is the Finance Minister and others, that the UK Government works with us to address the shortcomings in the current financial arrangements. 

I do take the point as well in terms of the availability of human resource within Business Wales. These are exceptional times and we are trying to steer as many members of staff as possible to front-line services. I will be providing further updates to Members in regard to the Business Wales service, because it's my view that we will have to pull in now additional human resources from other agencies to support Business Wales, and that is because of the exceptional demand for support. I'm also determined to ensure that local government assists Business Wales by offering a seamless and consistent advisory service that steers businesses and signposts businesses if necessary to UK Government agencies and support services as well. Because what a business wants more than anything is clear, simple, consistent messaging and information that can be accessed through one point of contact, and that's precisely what we are striving to achieve with Business Wales.

It is undoubtedly the case that these are times that are really worrying for families, such as none of us have ever seen in our lifetime. I very much look forward to hearing the detail of the statement that you said you'll be issuing later.

I wanted to ask specifically, though, about the automotive sector. As you'll be aware, I've got a lot of people employed in the automotive sector in Torfaen. Quite a number of companies across the world in automotive have basically stopped working, and that is a huge concern for the large employers in Torfaen. Can I ask what discussions you've had with the automotive sector and whether you can look very specifically at their needs?

Obviously, these are not people who can work from home. They are hugely competitive industries, and if we lose them then there's a very significant risk that there will be no bringing that back from the brink. So, can I ask you what specific measures you're looking at to address the concerns of all the members of staff working in the automotive sector in Torfaen?

Can I thank Lynne Neagle for her question? I'd agree entirely with her. I've never, ever experienced an episode of such intense anxiety and uncertainty for families and businesses across our country, and indeed around the world. It demonstrates why, at every opportunity, we need to work as closely as possible as Governments, as political parties as well, to overcome the challenges that we face.

Lynne Neagle points to one specific part of the economy that is facing very grave difficulties right now: the automotive sector. It was already facing challenges as a consequence of the accelerated shift towards zero emissions and the advent of self-drive vehicles. This now, and of course on top of the uncertainty of Brexit, poses an incredible challenge that will be difficult to overcome, but I am of the belief that the sector is strong and robust and will overcome it, but it will require assistance.

Many Members will have seen news just in the last 24 hours of the decision taken by Toyota, very similar to those that Lynne Neagle highlighted in her question. This follows on the back of the decision made over Vauxhall's operations in the UK, and there are 400 or so people who live in Wales who are employed at the Ellesmere Port site. So, a vast number of people in the Welsh workforce will be affected by decisions taken within the automotive sector.

We are in daily dialogue with the Welsh automotive forum, which is the representative body of the automotive sector, and the message that we are receiving from them is that the automotive sector, like many business sectors in the Welsh economy, simply cannot continue if they require a huge degree of people to work from home. You have to actually be on site, making things, and therefore hibernation may be the only option.

In order to ensure that businesses come out of hibernation as soon as possible and get people back to work, rather than fall over during this period, a wage-subsidy scheme is required. And it's not just required for the businesses themselves, it's also required for individuals to guarantee their welfare throughout this period.

Thank you, Minister.